Good evening.
I've been thinking a lot recently about protein levels and the fact carp can only utilise a certain amount.
Yet a lot of the old and excellent baits, would be coming out very high in protein 60%+.
Which made me question, even though a carp can only utilise a certain amount would it still rather select a higher protein bait than it requires?
I've been thinking a lot recently about protein levels and the fact carp can only utilise a certain amount.
Yet a lot of the old and excellent baits, would be coming out very high in protein 60%+.
Which made me question, even though a carp can only utilise a certain amount would it still rather select a higher protein bait than it requires?
In reply to Post #1
I guess you would have to ask Fred Wilton on his theory for high protein baits.
For me, proteins are made up of amino acids, In simple terms I think this is why carp find them so “attractive”
As for digestion, if you cannot absorb it it will just pass through you. I think a human is around 33 grams, anything over this per meal is a waste, can't remember, it's been a long time? it makes sense to overload it though to ensure that all the amino acid requirements are met when broken down
Proteins in the human diet can fill you up quickly. A carp has no stomach as such so will just take out all the nutrients from a bait as it passes through it. The question is, when is a carp full
I guess you would have to ask Fred Wilton on his theory for high protein baits.
For me, proteins are made up of amino acids, In simple terms I think this is why carp find them so “attractive”
As for digestion, if you cannot absorb it it will just pass through you. I think a human is around 33 grams, anything over this per meal is a waste, can't remember, it's been a long time? it makes sense to overload it though to ensure that all the amino acid requirements are met when broken down
Proteins in the human diet can fill you up quickly. A carp has no stomach as such so will just take out all the nutrients from a bait as it passes through it. The question is, when is a carp full
In reply to Post #1
A carp doesn't swim round with a nutritional calculator.
But depending on time of year, and Mother Nature carp requirements, they may well over a period of regular eating, prefer one higher protein type of boilie over another low protein one to intake extra nutrients.
The more longer term carpers amongst us, Would have all caught on what was classed as old School high protein milk protein boilies, and everything between this, mid and then low protein baits.
Protein baits were the fashion back then, like the cell and krill nowadays
Fred Wilton proved there is something in the whole HNV recognition, too much so, mega results, not to be coincidental.
Anything surplus to a carps requirements will just pass through.
A carp doesn't swim round with a nutritional calculator.
But depending on time of year, and Mother Nature carp requirements, they may well over a period of regular eating, prefer one higher protein type of boilie over another low protein one to intake extra nutrients.
The more longer term carpers amongst us, Would have all caught on what was classed as old School high protein milk protein boilies, and everything between this, mid and then low protein baits.
Protein baits were the fashion back then, like the cell and krill nowadays
Fred Wilton proved there is something in the whole HNV recognition, too much so, mega results, not to be coincidental.
Anything surplus to a carps requirements will just pass through.
In reply to Post #3
Thanks gentlemen.
I see a lot of posts regarding lower protein content and just trying to understand the thinking behind it,
when you would be using a bait that is inherently less attractive.
I realise it might be so you could still bait in quantity, as the carps metabolism slows down.
But you could achieve this with different baits.
Just playing devils advocate really.
Regards Tom.
Thanks gentlemen.
I see a lot of posts regarding lower protein content and just trying to understand the thinking behind it,
when you would be using a bait that is inherently less attractive.
I realise it might be so you could still bait in quantity, as the carps metabolism slows down.
But you could achieve this with different baits.
Just playing devils advocate really.
Regards Tom.
In reply to Post #1
There was also the fact that with these high protein baits generally only small amounts were being used, they were and still are very effective.
There was also the fact that with these high protein baits generally only small amounts were being used, they were and still are very effective.
In reply to Post #1
A lot of the older high protein baits do not have a very good digestible content. Some of the ingredients are also used in the glue industry
So take you >60% bait and maybe only 25% of it is digestible. Now make a decent fishmeal with a 35%-40% protein level and you will have 30% of the bait as digestible. The lower protein level bait is better for the fish
A lot of the older high protein baits do not have a very good digestible content. Some of the ingredients are also used in the glue industry
So take you >60% bait and maybe only 25% of it is digestible. Now make a decent fishmeal with a 35%-40% protein level and you will have 30% of the bait as digestible. The lower protein level bait is better for the fish
In reply to Post #6
The protein of any boilie is not the be all and end all, but those who actually use very good fishmeals, milks and liquids generally produce much more attractive baits with naturally higher protein levels. These are the baits that generally survive the test of time and regularly produce big carp. If you cut all these things out and use your soy maize and bulkers then your baits tend to be much lower in protein. I know which one I want to use and what returns the most catch reports which in reality is the ultimate answer to how good a bait is
The protein of any boilie is not the be all and end all, but those who actually use very good fishmeals, milks and liquids generally produce much more attractive baits with naturally higher protein levels. These are the baits that generally survive the test of time and regularly produce big carp. If you cut all these things out and use your soy maize and bulkers then your baits tend to be much lower in protein. I know which one I want to use and what returns the most catch reports which in reality is the ultimate answer to how good a bait is
In reply to Post #7
And I have been told my whole life what carp can detect or what they can't detect and what they can absorb and what they can't and I'm not really sure I believe any of it. I fed carp the best diet I could afford for years and every year they grew really well and looked immaculate. I'm sure they prosper from better food hence why carp fed on particles struggle to gain weight
And I have been told my whole life what carp can detect or what they can't detect and what they can absorb and what they can't and I'm not really sure I believe any of it. I fed carp the best diet I could afford for years and every year they grew really well and looked immaculate. I'm sure they prosper from better food hence why carp fed on particles struggle to gain weight
In reply to Post #8
So true. Quality. You get what you pay for. Budget permitting. Sometimes less is more. Quality over quantity. You cannot take out what you have already fired in.
Koi owners and breeders, are like us anglers, very passionate about their hobby and they wouldn't feed anything that could do upset to koi costing hundreds or thousands of pounds.
The beauty of koi owners is that you can see and gauge how said food is being eaten / not eaten and the condition of your fish regularly.
Where as us anglers could go months or even years between captures.
So true. Quality. You get what you pay for. Budget permitting. Sometimes less is more. Quality over quantity. You cannot take out what you have already fired in.
Koi owners and breeders, are like us anglers, very passionate about their hobby and they wouldn't feed anything that could do upset to koi costing hundreds or thousands of pounds.
The beauty of koi owners is that you can see and gauge how said food is being eaten / not eaten and the condition of your fish regularly.
Where as us anglers could go months or even years between captures.
In reply to Post #9
I've got koi and they eat anything I drop in. Not sure I learn much from feeding them bait. Lots of 'facts' around koi are hearsay with little or no evidence it's possible worse than the hearsay around carp baits IMHO 
I've got koi and they eat anything I drop in. Not sure I learn much from feeding them bait. Lots of 'facts' around koi are hearsay with little or no evidence
it's possible worse than the hearsay around carp baits IMHO
In reply to Post #10
I think the point he's making is koi owners don't just drop any old food in......
I think the point he's making is koi owners don't just drop any old food in......
In reply to Post #11
I used to think that but after several years I believe 95% of koi are feed what the local shop sells. The koi forums are nearly all about filter setup and how many thousands you can spend on them not food. If it's in a nice bag or tub it must be good for them 😉
I've been adding a digestive aid (from the aquaculture industry) to my shop koi pellets, the fish now eat more and the water quality has improved..... Will the koi forums listen to me? Nope because that's not what they do in Japan
I used to think that but after several years I believe 95% of koi are feed what the local shop sells. The koi forums are nearly all about filter setup and how many thousands you can spend on them not food. If it's in a nice bag or tub it must be good for them 😉
I've been adding a digestive aid (from the aquaculture industry) to my shop koi pellets, the fish now eat more and the water quality has improved..... Will the koi forums listen to me? Nope because that's not what they do in Japan
In reply to Post #11
Yes that is one point I was trying to make.
The other point also was that some carp/koi can, or will show a preference to certain types or tastes of food fed, over other feeds.
Yes that is one point I was trying to make.
The other point also was that some carp/koi can, or will show a preference to certain types or tastes of food fed, over other feeds.
In reply to Post #12
Smurf you could always do a Geoff Kemp, and make big inroads into the koi industry with your 'unconventional findings on improving koi feeds with digestive aids'
Smurf you could always do a Geoff Kemp, and make big inroads into the koi industry with your 'unconventional findings on improving koi feeds with digestive aids'
In reply to Post #13
I completely agree that some carp prefer certain tastes. I find this one sentence completely contradictory to all we think we know about carp food attraction, the more I think about that the more my head hurts I think it even comes down to some carp have certain feeding styles. Maybe the two are linked. Maybe it's the difference between instinct and learnt behavior.
Didn't Duncan Kay pack in carp bait for Koi? Unless it comes from the land of the rising sun most Koi owners are not interested. Here is another example of Koi mythology. Buying a bigger variable speed pump and running it slowly will save a few watts of electricity over a smaller fixed speed pump, assuming both have the same output. A bigger motor and impeller require more energy to turn the larger mass, but not according to Koi folklore. Now having supposedly saved a few watts on a pump that cost twice as much they turn on there £800 3kw heater for the next 4-5 months
it's all bonkers to me 
I completely agree that some carp prefer certain tastes. I find this one sentence completely contradictory to all we think we know about carp food attraction, the more I think about that the more my head hurts
I think it even comes down to some carp have certain feeding styles. Maybe the two are linked. Maybe it's the difference between instinct and learnt behavior. Didn't Duncan Kay pack in carp bait for Koi? Unless it comes from the land of the rising sun most Koi owners are not interested. Here is another example of Koi mythology. Buying a bigger variable speed pump and running it slowly will save a few watts of electricity over a smaller fixed speed pump, assuming both have the same output. A bigger motor and impeller require more energy to turn the larger mass, but not according to Koi folklore. Now having supposedly saved a few watts on a pump that cost twice as much they turn on there £800 3kw heater for the next 4-5 months
it's all bonkers to me