The original enterprise imitation dog biscuits had a weight that meant the hook was on top of the biscuit when in the water as many of you will know.
Does having the hook on top, lead to more takes and less fish shying away at the last minute?
I have heard folk claim that when the hook is underneath the bait the carp can't see it as it's masked by the shadow of the hook bait. If this it true how come so many fish take the free offerings and leave your bait alone?
What method do you use to attach your hook bait that works for you, and catches you plenty off carp of the top?
Does having the hook on top, lead to more takes and less fish shying away at the last minute?
I have heard folk claim that when the hook is underneath the bait the carp can't see it as it's masked by the shadow of the hook bait. If this it true how come so many fish take the free offerings and leave your bait alone?
What method do you use to attach your hook bait that works for you, and catches you plenty off carp of the top?
In reply to Post #1
It's not just the hook being below surface that can mean the hookbait is left alone, in fact I would think that is the least likely reason.
The hookbait is on the hook and is attached to a length of line, sounds obvious, but that now means that the biscuit on the hook is going to behave differently.
Surface drift, the bait may drift faster or slower than freebies, because of the line. The hookbait, the biscuit is not so buoyant as it has a hook attached. The hook itself may act as a wind anchor. It may be the line attached to the hook is visible.
Years ago I played with ways to get the hook on top of the bait. Cut a normal boilie in half, and glue it to a piece of foam. With the foam, probably about 4 or 5mm thick, cut a small nick on the top of the foam, and glue a hook into it with the base of the shank and start of the bend into the slit.
Tie hook to your hooklink, the boilie should make the hook sit on top. You should also find that there is no line directly on the water right next to the hook.
Bear in mind I fish floating baits for chub as well, drifting baits across their heads, and chub are even more wary than carp.
I gave up faffing, and came up with some things that work for me.
Bait I use Bakers Complete. A mix of shapes and sizes, and the big chunks make good hookbaits.
Use the lightest hooklink possible to safely land fish, if that is 7lb Berkley Trilene XL, or 11lb Preston Reflo, use it. Yes, I'll have some missed takes, don't strike and you shouldn't spook them.
Fish as close to yourself as possible, if you can freeline off your rod tip absolutely brilliant. If you need a controller you might find a Nash Bolt machine is better than the normal tenpin controller.
I usually use hooks sized between 8 and 12, Drennan Super Specialists, Solar 101's.
My hooklink I make a loop at the end and put a Bakers Complete Meaty chunk on the loop, stopped with a boilie stop, then knotless knot my hook on. I then tie or attach my hooklink to the mainline, either a swivel join, or if freelining a water knot (usually).
It's not just the hook being below surface that can mean the hookbait is left alone, in fact I would think that is the least likely reason.
The hookbait is on the hook and is attached to a length of line, sounds obvious, but that now means that the biscuit on the hook is going to behave differently.
Surface drift, the bait may drift faster or slower than freebies, because of the line. The hookbait, the biscuit is not so buoyant as it has a hook attached. The hook itself may act as a wind anchor. It may be the line attached to the hook is visible.
Years ago I played with ways to get the hook on top of the bait. Cut a normal boilie in half, and glue it to a piece of foam. With the foam, probably about 4 or 5mm thick, cut a small nick on the top of the foam, and glue a hook into it with the base of the shank and start of the bend into the slit.
Tie hook to your hooklink, the boilie should make the hook sit on top. You should also find that there is no line directly on the water right next to the hook.
Bear in mind I fish floating baits for chub as well, drifting baits across their heads, and chub are even more wary than carp.
I gave up faffing, and came up with some things that work for me.
Bait I use Bakers Complete. A mix of shapes and sizes, and the big chunks make good hookbaits.
Use the lightest hooklink possible to safely land fish, if that is 7lb Berkley Trilene XL, or 11lb Preston Reflo, use it. Yes, I'll have some missed takes, don't strike and you shouldn't spook them.
Fish as close to yourself as possible, if you can freeline off your rod tip absolutely brilliant. If you need a controller you might find a Nash Bolt machine is better than the normal tenpin controller.
I usually use hooks sized between 8 and 12, Drennan Super Specialists, Solar 101's.
My hooklink I make a loop at the end and put a Bakers Complete Meaty chunk on the loop, stopped with a boilie stop, then knotless knot my hook on. I then tie or attach my hooklink to the mainline, either a swivel join, or if freelining a water knot (usually).
In reply to Post #2
Thanks for the in depth reply Nick. A few things for me to try there
Thanks for the in depth reply Nick. A few things for me to try there
In reply to Post #1
With the enterprise fake mixers, I cut a slot opposite the weight and slide the shank in, making minor adjustments so it floats with the hook secured in place and on top of the bait.
The hook has a hair Knotless knot style, which is threaded through the bait to come out of the weight hole and the split shot is pinched onto the hair loop and pushed back into the hole.
With the enterprise fake mixers, I cut a slot opposite the weight and slide the shank in, making minor adjustments so it floats with the hook secured in place and on top of the bait.
The hook has a hair Knotless knot style, which is threaded through the bait to come out of the weight hole and the split shot is pinched onto the hair loop and pushed back into the hole.
In reply to Post #1
Highly unlikely its anything to do with the hook, they dont k ow a hook is a hook! Probably more so to do with the line lay on the water. I'd imagine you can see the line a mile off from under the surface.
Highly unlikely its anything to do with the hook, they dont k ow a hook is a hook! Probably more so to do with the line lay on the water. I'd imagine you can see the line a mile off from under the surface.
In reply to Post #1
Ditched those years ago; they don't really work and IME the fish prefer a freebie to match most of the time.
If you really want to make surface fishing easy use the beach caster method - in terms of hook bait attachment a small hair is best as you can literally 'dapple' the bait with the hook above the waters surface
For standard floater fishing I used to hair rig but these days don't bother and prefer to use a band - Korum do some decent clear ones in several diameters.
Personally think the key is to get them feeding confidently first and foremost prior to lobbing anything out - Nash Riser pellets are excellent for this mixed with a few larger pellets. Once they're slurping its game on . . . braided mainlines and a soft rod means fish are pretty much self hooked without the need to strike ridiculously
Ditched those years ago; they don't really work and IME the fish prefer a freebie to match most of the time.
If you really want to make surface fishing easy use the beach caster method - in terms of hook bait attachment a small hair is best as you can literally 'dapple' the bait with the hook above the waters surface
For standard floater fishing I used to hair rig but these days don't bother and prefer to use a band - Korum do some decent clear ones in several diameters.
Personally think the key is to get them feeding confidently first and foremost prior to lobbing anything out - Nash Riser pellets are excellent for this mixed with a few larger pellets. Once they're slurping its game on . . . braided mainlines and a soft rod means fish are pretty much self hooked without the need to strike ridiculously
In reply to Post #6
Personally think the key is to get them feeding confidently first and foremost prior to lobbing anything out
This is the really important bit.
Personally think the key is to get them feeding confidently first and foremost prior to lobbing anything out
This is the really important bit.
In reply to Post #6
Thanks for the reply. Like the idea of keeping it simple, so popped into my local A/D today.
Found the Korum bait bands you mentioned and they looked pretty sturdy.
I already had a bag of 11mm Sonubaits Oily Floaters and a bag of Dynamite Big Fish 11mm Floaters so like the idea of banding them.
I bought the 10mm bait bands. Popped a pellet in and put it against my size 10 Korda Mixa hook. The hook looks to small but I could be wrong.
Can I ask what size bands, hooks, and pellet size you are banding please?
Thanks
Thanks for the reply. Like the idea of keeping it simple, so popped into my local A/D today.
Found the Korum bait bands you mentioned and they looked pretty sturdy.
I already had a bag of 11mm Sonubaits Oily Floaters and a bag of Dynamite Big Fish 11mm Floaters so like the idea of banding them.
I bought the 10mm bait bands. Popped a pellet in and put it against my size 10 Korda Mixa hook. The hook looks to small but I could be wrong.
Can I ask what size bands, hooks, and pellet size you are banding please?
Thanks
In reply to Post #8
I also use Korda Mixa Barbed in either 8 or 10 - band wise all depends on hookbaits but using standard floating pellets (11mm Sticky Krill / Dynamite Floaters) an 8mm Korum band (stretched) should suffice without fear of the fish sucking it out of the band once the pellet softens - I also have the 4mm bands for 6mm Floaters if they're feeding cautiously . . .
Band can be fished in a couple of ways - usually on the back of the shank for ease but you can also thread them onto the hooklink and create a tight overhand loop then knotless knot to the hook shank to create a looped hair which can give a bit more movement (perhaps better for smaller hookbaits) . . .the smaller the hook the better irrespective of hookbait size
I also use Korda Mixa Barbed in either 8 or 10 - band wise all depends on hookbaits but using standard floating pellets (11mm Sticky Krill / Dynamite Floaters) an 8mm Korum band (stretched) should suffice without fear of the fish sucking it out of the band once the pellet softens - I also have the 4mm bands for 6mm Floaters if they're feeding cautiously . . .
Band can be fished in a couple of ways - usually on the back of the shank for ease but you can also thread them onto the hooklink and create a tight overhand loop then knotless knot to the hook shank to create a looped hair which can give a bit more movement (perhaps better for smaller hookbaits) . . .the smaller the hook the better irrespective of hookbait size
In reply to Post #8
Thanks mate, all makes sense 👍
Thanks mate, all makes sense 👍
In reply to Post #10
On large gravel pits with a stock of large fish i would stick with dog biscuits as bait and baitband on. Bait a little to start with an increase as fish become interested. i used to fish a size 10 hook with two bands and two dog biscuits and tie the hooklink with palomar knot, you dont want to fish a knotless knot as the line will be pointing down into the water and the fish may spook off it. I used to fish a heavy fox inline bubble float with a long 8 ft hooklength and this seem to be the best method, as soon as i changed to something that was 'easier' to fish with, like those fake enterprise dog biscuits or a whittled down pop up boilie i did'nt do nearly so well and although a pain to keep changing the dog biscuits its worth it imo. You gotta keep moving the bands around on the hook untill the biscuits sit nicely on the back of the hook leaving the gape free. Whack it out there and most of the time you didnt need to strike.
If your on a smaller pond type water with doubles in etc then I would scale down to to size 12 or 14 and 1 biscuit and perhaps a lighter float set up.
On large gravel pits with a stock of large fish i would stick with dog biscuits as bait and baitband on. Bait a little to start with an increase as fish become interested. i used to fish a size 10 hook with two bands and two dog biscuits and tie the hooklink with palomar knot, you dont want to fish a knotless knot as the line will be pointing down into the water and the fish may spook off it. I used to fish a heavy fox inline bubble float with a long 8 ft hooklength and this seem to be the best method, as soon as i changed to something that was 'easier' to fish with, like those fake enterprise dog biscuits or a whittled down pop up boilie i did'nt do nearly so well and although a pain to keep changing the dog biscuits its worth it imo. You gotta keep moving the bands around on the hook untill the biscuits sit nicely on the back of the hook leaving the gape free. Whack it out there and most of the time you didnt need to strike.
If your on a smaller pond type water with doubles in etc then I would scale down to to size 12 or 14 and 1 biscuit and perhaps a lighter float set up.
In reply to Post #1
I'm afraid my answer will be old hat to some and boring...lol
Unless using actual mixers (originally Ped Chum but last decade plus Tesco Own mixed dry dog food) I always used Enterprise original fakes and they are great. I did try the weighted Enterprise versions you mention for a couple of years but they were a lot softer plastic and with the rec side hooking I lost a lot off the hook which didn't sit easy with me and has led to me stopping using fakes for that reason. I tried hair rigging into the weight slot too but still they came off.
Set up wise, it was always straight through with my mainline which again for decades was sensor. I then tried a new line which was quite heavy/stiff & black so hooklength wise I tried Fox Zig & floater which I've stayed with. I used to store premade hooklengths (6') on foam spools and would often reuse them until the line was damaged or they'd got to short from having to rety hooks. With the Fox Z&F however I find that it snaps easily if repeatedly used, I can only assume UV damage, So I'm not that confident reusing it.
Band wise I'm stuck in my ways, always a John Roberts, they have a circular disc that the hook goes through. I tried standard bands, I just don't like the way there's no stand off between hook and bait. I superglue the circular tab to the eye of the hook once its slid down.
Hook wise I bulk bought some of the old Fox 1b size 8s and I'm still using them, I like the Korda mixa 1s too, both nice light hooks but not for dense weed use.
With that band set up the hook bend is always proud of the front of the bisc tilted down due to the line being on the water and as long as the biscuit is relatively central it always sits right.
I agree with the movement of the biscuit rather than seeing the hook being the thing that puts Carp off the most, you'll often see them swirl a bait or blow it to see how it moves, it can be infuriating ar times, espesh when you're convinced its perfect 🤣
I'm afraid my answer will be old hat to some and boring...lol
Unless using actual mixers (originally Ped Chum but last decade plus Tesco Own mixed dry dog food) I always used Enterprise original fakes and they are great. I did try the weighted Enterprise versions you mention for a couple of years but they were a lot softer plastic and with the rec side hooking I lost a lot off the hook which didn't sit easy with me and has led to me stopping using fakes for that reason. I tried hair rigging into the weight slot too but still they came off.
Set up wise, it was always straight through with my mainline which again for decades was sensor. I then tried a new line which was quite heavy/stiff & black so hooklength wise I tried Fox Zig & floater which I've stayed with. I used to store premade hooklengths (6') on foam spools and would often reuse them until the line was damaged or they'd got to short from having to rety hooks. With the Fox Z&F however I find that it snaps easily if repeatedly used, I can only assume UV damage, So I'm not that confident reusing it.
Band wise I'm stuck in my ways, always a John Roberts, they have a circular disc that the hook goes through. I tried standard bands, I just don't like the way there's no stand off between hook and bait. I superglue the circular tab to the eye of the hook once its slid down.
Hook wise I bulk bought some of the old Fox 1b size 8s and I'm still using them, I like the Korda mixa 1s too, both nice light hooks but not for dense weed use.
With that band set up the hook bend is always proud of the front of the bisc tilted down due to the line being on the water and as long as the biscuit is relatively central it always sits right.
I agree with the movement of the biscuit rather than seeing the hook being the thing that puts Carp off the most, you'll often see them swirl a bait or blow it to see how it moves, it can be infuriating ar times, espesh when you're convinced its perfect 🤣
In reply to Post #12
Great reply. Some good tips there I can also use
Great reply. Some good tips there I can also use
In reply to Post #1
Im also in agreement that the hook underneath the hook bait is not usually the problem.
I dabble with a bit of fly fishing for Trout when the mood takes me and particularly when dry fly fishing find that when the going gets tough it really pays to scrutinise and improve the presentation to try and buy a bite.
Consider experimenting with different hook link materials (fluorocarbon, copolymer, monofilament). A thinner hook link will give you a finer presentation, but has to be balanced with offering a sensible breaking strain to suit the conditions. A water repelling substance on the hook link such as Mucilin etc. which will help it to float on the surface.
Cleaning and degreasing your hook link regularly often gets overlooked but can make the difference in getting a bite or not.
Im also in agreement that the hook underneath the hook bait is not usually the problem.
I dabble with a bit of fly fishing for Trout when the mood takes me and particularly when dry fly fishing find that when the going gets tough it really pays to scrutinise and improve the presentation to try and buy a bite.
Consider experimenting with different hook link materials (fluorocarbon, copolymer, monofilament). A thinner hook link will give you a finer presentation, but has to be balanced with offering a sensible breaking strain to suit the conditions. A water repelling substance on the hook link such as Mucilin etc. which will help it to float on the surface.
Cleaning and degreasing your hook link regularly often gets overlooked but can make the difference in getting a bite or not.
Loads of good tips on here
I add varying the length of your hooklength if you are missing bites. A bit of experimentation on this could change things
I add varying the length of your hooklength if you are missing bites. A bit of experimentation on this could change things
In reply to Post #14
If I'm not beachcaster fishing I usually go very short on hooklink lengths these days if I can get away with it; 6' mucilin greased links of lower bs lines can be difficult to cast and control / mend unless its flat calm.
Prefer to use an MCF egg float (the current Fox Exocet floats are the closest poor cousins) in conjunction with a spool of ye olde Kryston Multistrand - I've been having success using hooklinks of no more than a foot long - this when paired with a heavy egg float (that they weirdly don't seem to spook off) can result in aggressive self hooking takes - a floating bolt rig basically . . .its also a rig that most others these days would never consider so can work when lakes get hammered by the end of the summer
If I'm not beachcaster fishing I usually go very short on hooklink lengths these days if I can get away with it; 6' mucilin greased links of lower bs lines can be difficult to cast and control / mend unless its flat calm.
Prefer to use an MCF egg float (the current Fox Exocet floats are the closest poor cousins) in conjunction with a spool of ye olde Kryston Multistrand - I've been having success using hooklinks of no more than a foot long - this when paired with a heavy egg float (that they weirdly don't seem to spook off) can result in aggressive self hooking takes - a floating bolt rig basically . . .its also a rig that most others these days would never consider so can work when lakes get hammered by the end of the summer
In reply to Post #14
What you said makes no sense.
On the one hand you're telling the guy to make his hooklength float with mucilin, and on the other you're telling him to degrease it so it sinks.
OP. 7 strands of 2lb line will give you an undetectable hook link. Do not twist them together when tying it up. Take the time to get them all the same length and you have....multistrand. showing my age here in that I remember when multistrand was a thing.
Chunk of Cork banded to the hook. Loop the band over the hook shank and pull it through itself, secure with a spot of spuerglue. Cut a slit in the cork with a knife so the band sits in the cork, never have to rebait again.
Hundreds, thousands even of carp have fallen to this just to me alone, both with a controller and fly fishing.
What you said makes no sense.
On the one hand you're telling the guy to make his hooklength float with mucilin, and on the other you're telling him to degrease it so it sinks.
OP. 7 strands of 2lb line will give you an undetectable hook link. Do not twist them together when tying it up. Take the time to get them all the same length and you have....multistrand. showing my age here in that I remember when multistrand was a thing.
Chunk of Cork banded to the hook. Loop the band over the hook shank and pull it through itself, secure with a spot of spuerglue. Cut a slit in the cork with a knife so the band sits in the cork, never have to rebait again.
Hundreds, thousands even of carp have fallen to this just to me alone, both with a controller and fly fishing.
Personally my idea of floatant for Carp is a quick rub of the index finger down the nose or behind my ear, guess it depends on your complexion 
As for original Mucilin, on hot sunny days you'll be wearing most of it in your pocket (for those not familiar think vaseline). There are however others which are temperature stable.
Re the multi strand, oddly enough cross over with fly fishing again, furled leaders. They have a dual use in fly fishing, being able to kick the fly out more easily but more relevant, they move more freely with the water currents to make the fly appear like its moving naturally.
Sounds to me like they could be used for Carp, I am thinking of trying it, I cant see any fault with the logic, and there are Carp flies so its probably been done already....anyone? Again floatation pastes apparently take more easily to a furled leader than a single line, I've never tried it though so that's not personal experience. You heard it here 1st Carp tackle companies, fill your boots
Now you've got me thinking about floatants how about a bit of Frogs fanny or Otter Butter...those names...I just can't shrug them ....cue the Carp connotations.
As for original Mucilin, on hot sunny days you'll be wearing most of it in your pocket (for those not familiar think vaseline). There are however others which are temperature stable.Re the multi strand, oddly enough cross over with fly fishing again, furled leaders. They have a dual use in fly fishing, being able to kick the fly out more easily but more relevant, they move more freely with the water currents to make the fly appear like its moving naturally.
Sounds to me like they could be used for Carp, I am thinking of trying it, I cant see any fault with the logic, and there are Carp flies so its probably been done already....anyone? Again floatation pastes apparently take more easily to a furled leader than a single line, I've never tried it though so that's not personal experience. You heard it here 1st Carp tackle companies, fill your boots
Now you've got me thinking about floatants how about a bit of Frogs fanny or Otter Butter...those names...I just can't shrug them
....cue the Carp connotations.
In reply to Post #17
Yes, you are correct.
I should of added that the 12" or so to the hook doesn't need to have mucilin applied and should be regularly degreased with a clean cloth, sponge or pad.
Yes, you are correct.
I should of added that the 12" or so to the hook doesn't need to have mucilin applied and should be regularly degreased with a clean cloth, sponge or pad.
Lots of good replies / info
the beachcaster method is my prefered way as its less likely to spook them and you can target your fish by simply lifting it up if a small carp wants your bait and you dont want to catch it
i found small cat biscuits to be best and cheap as well but you could use floating pellets
the trouble with dog biscuits is it just filled them up too quick and the carp drifted away before they were all competing for the biscuits
i am surprised no one has mentioned my favourite hookbait for floater fishing
the imitation fly or insect from the fly fishing world loads of different patterns etc but i found the best was just a brown ball of fluff / deer hair ? just hook the ball on a size 10 / 8 hook with a 2ft hooklink of your choice its a deadly method
the beachcaster method is my prefered way as its less likely to spook them and you can target your fish by simply lifting it up if a small carp wants your bait and you dont want to catch it
i found small cat biscuits to be best and cheap as well but you could use floating pellets
the trouble with dog biscuits is it just filled them up too quick and the carp drifted away before they were all competing for the biscuits
i am surprised no one has mentioned my favourite hookbait for floater fishing
the imitation fly or insect from the fly fishing world loads of different patterns etc but i found the best was just a brown ball of fluff / deer hair ? just hook the ball on a size 10 / 8 hook with a 2ft hooklink of your choice its a deadly method
In reply to Post #18
A furled leader is not multistrand in the way I understand it - I thought they were twisted like twine to improve casting etc? The original Kryston is a genuine multistrand ie multiple fine fibres that can be pulled apart to appear less linear on the surface - tbf its not perfect and can be a pain to manage if not careful hence the short hooklink method. . .def room for development here however in terms of a genuine floating multistrand hooklink that perhaps forces itself apart when in contact with water?
A furled leader is not multistrand in the way I understand it - I thought they were twisted like twine to improve casting etc? The original Kryston is a genuine multistrand ie multiple fine fibres that can be pulled apart to appear less linear on the surface - tbf its not perfect and can be a pain to manage if not careful hence the short hooklink method. . .def room for development here however in terms of a genuine floating multistrand hooklink that perhaps forces itself apart when in contact with water?
Anchored crust job done.
In reply to Post #12
With the enterprise fake mixers, I cut a slot opposite the weight and slide the shank in, making minor adjustments so it floats with the hook secured in place and on top of the bait.
The hook has a hair Knotless knot style, which is threaded through the bait to come out of the weight hole and the split shot is pinched onto the hair loop and pushed back into the hole.
With the enterprise fake mixers, I cut a slot opposite the weight and slide the shank in, making minor adjustments so it floats with the hook secured in place and on top of the bait.
The hook has a hair Knotless knot style, which is threaded through the bait to come out of the weight hole and the split shot is pinched onto the hair loop and pushed back into the hole.
In reply to Post #14
Not tried it yet, but I have often considered using flurocarbon for the last 6 inches of the hook length.
The was a fantastic 'Wildlife on 2' on BBC2 a good few years ago, about a couple of trout anglers trying to imitate the excatc underwater view of dry flies and leader.
Not tried it yet, but I have often considered using flurocarbon for the last 6 inches of the hook length.
The was a fantastic 'Wildlife on 2' on BBC2 a good few years ago, about a couple of trout anglers trying to imitate the excatc underwater view of dry flies and leader.
In reply to Post #17
Have you tried deer hair imitation mixer flies. If so, how have you found them?
Have you tried deer hair imitation mixer flies. If so, how have you found them?
In reply to Post #18
I have found Gink to be good as a line floatant.
A floating braid is good for a main line/hook link, too, where you can use it.
I have found Gink to be good as a line floatant.
A floating braid is good for a main line/hook link, too, where you can use it.
i am surprised no one has mentioned my favourite hookbait for floater fishing
the imitation fly or insect from the fly fishing world loads of different patterns etc but i found the best was just a brown ball of fluff / deer hair ?
Do you deliberately like to make life hard for yourself by having a fav that doesn't work as well :-P Good to hear they work well too, I wonder if the ripples from twitching a fly might pre occupy the Carp or aid hiding the line etc...hmmm surely that would negate the effects of them blowing at them to see how they move, lets face it a live fly/insect will go where it wants and not at the pace of other stuff, precisely what makes it stand out to fish I would have thought. I will be giving them a go
A furled leader is not multistrand in the way I understand it
We have different ways of looking at it, I can be like that...lol. To me multi strand outside of fishing means just that many strands irrespective of how they're arranged. Yes furled leaders are twisted around each other, sort of platting or braid I suppose, still made up of multiple strands. I'm kind of glad they're not like the Kryston stuff, imagine using a silk version of that with fingers rough as a bears arse the main reason I hated tying the kryston stuff on the bank for all those years :-(
I have often considered using flurocarbon for the last 6 inches of the hook length.
I suppose in theory if that last 6" is subsurface it could be a bonus, never tried it so can't comment. If it was floating, as FC is usually larger in diameter lb/lb with nylon I don't see any benefit as it'd still be visible in the surface tension.
Have you tried deer hair imitation mixer flies. If so, how have you found them?
Not yet but it looks like digger360 has. I do like the idea of them as they're natural, I don't like losing plastic, mostly from the pov if something smaller eats it, it could block it's intestine and it's a long lasting bait so it could kill again and again and again...you get the idea. How dense are those deer hair flies, could they be passed more easily than say a solid immitation or are they just as solid?
the imitation fly or insect from the fly fishing world loads of different patterns etc but i found the best was just a brown ball of fluff / deer hair ?
Do you deliberately like to make life hard for yourself by having a fav that doesn't work as well
:-P Good to hear they work well too, I wonder if the ripples from twitching a fly might pre occupy the Carp or aid hiding the line etc...hmmm surely that would negate the effects of them blowing at them to see how they move, lets face it a live fly/insect will go where it wants and not at the pace of other stuff, precisely what makes it stand out to fish I would have thought. I will be giving them a go A furled leader is not multistrand in the way I understand it
We have different ways of looking at it, I can be like that...lol. To me multi strand outside of fishing means just that many strands irrespective of how they're arranged. Yes furled leaders are twisted around each other, sort of platting or braid I suppose, still made up of multiple strands. I'm kind of glad they're not like the Kryston stuff, imagine using a silk version of that with fingers rough as a bears arse
the main reason I hated tying the kryston stuff on the bank for all those years :-( I have often considered using flurocarbon for the last 6 inches of the hook length.
I suppose in theory if that last 6" is subsurface it could be a bonus, never tried it so can't comment. If it was floating, as FC is usually larger in diameter lb/lb with nylon I don't see any benefit as it'd still be visible in the surface tension.
Have you tried deer hair imitation mixer flies. If so, how have you found them?
Not yet but it looks like digger360 has. I do like the idea of them as they're natural, I don't like losing plastic, mostly from the pov if something smaller eats it, it could block it's intestine and it's a long lasting bait so it could kill again and again and again...you get the idea. How dense are those deer hair flies, could they be passed more easily than say a solid immitation or are they just as solid?
In reply to Post #27
I've always thought a 'floating combi rig' might be a good idea just to give the last 2" a bit more freedom of movement - on the proviso the braid floats. I have experimented with this on my beachcaster rigs with some success however one of the benefits of a stiff hooklink when using the beachcaster is its stability in a chop / a bit of breeze so the braided element can work against you in this instance . . . def an advocate of steering clear of knotless knots (as per another posters comments) when traditional mono hooklink floater fishing - the line exits at an angle forcing the last few inches subsurface which is not ideal IMO
I've always thought a 'floating combi rig' might be a good idea just to give the last 2" a bit more freedom of movement - on the proviso the braid floats. I have experimented with this on my beachcaster rigs with some success however one of the benefits of a stiff hooklink when using the beachcaster is its stability in a chop / a bit of breeze so the braided element can work against you in this instance . . . def an advocate of steering clear of knotless knots (as per another posters comments) when traditional mono hooklink floater fishing - the line exits at an angle forcing the last few inches subsurface which is not ideal IMO
In reply to Post #25
Tried them? I've tied hundreds of them lol. Just cut a good pinch of deer hair, catch it in the middle halfway down the shank, pull the thread as hard as you dare until the deer hair 'balls up' so to speak. Whip finish then trim to rough biscuity shape.
They're OK, they work OK but do get rejected quite a bit, but eventually they sink when they get waterlogged due to the trimming.
Had way more fish on cork. Which obviously never sinks, and never comes off as long as you slice it with a blade and work the bait band into the cuts.
Even plain cork balls straight out of the packet work wonders except on very pressured waters.
Tried them? I've tied hundreds of them lol. Just cut a good pinch of deer hair, catch it in the middle halfway down the shank, pull the thread as hard as you dare until the deer hair 'balls up' so to speak. Whip finish then trim to rough biscuity shape.
They're OK, they work OK but do get rejected quite a bit, but eventually they sink when they get waterlogged due to the trimming.
Had way more fish on cork. Which obviously never sinks, and never comes off as long as you slice it with a blade and work the bait band into the cuts.
Even plain cork balls straight out of the packet work wonders except on very pressured waters.
In reply to Post #29
I think every bait has its day its just finding which one they prefer on that day like you i have tried everything and these imition biscuits are up there with the best considering there is no flavouring a bit like zig foam / fishing in theory it shouldnt work according bait companys but its a deadly tactic on the right day
yes they do eventually sink thats why i love the beachcaster method you can lower or lift it up when you want so it can stay out longer than with a surface controller so less disturbance and when its gets wet just squeeze it out and blow on it a few times
these are pretty good from ebay if people dont know how to make them
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304808095894?hash=item46f7fa7096:g:qgYAAOSwHz1j7n8u
always worth having a packet in your bag
I think every bait has its day its just finding which one they prefer on that day like you i have tried everything and these imition biscuits are up there with the best considering there is no flavouring a bit like zig foam / fishing in theory it shouldnt work according bait companys but its a deadly tactic on the right day
yes they do eventually sink thats why i love the beachcaster method you can lower or lift it up when you want so it can stay out longer than with a surface controller so less disturbance and when its gets wet just squeeze it out and blow on it a few times
these are pretty good from ebay if people dont know how to make them
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304808095894?hash=item46f7fa7096:g:qgYAAOSwHz1j7n8u
always worth having a packet in your bag
In reply to Post #7
Personally think the key is to get them feeding confidently first and foremost prior to lobbing anything out
This is the really important bit.
I'd agree on most waters, but sometimes the first or only bait out there needs to be the hookbait.
I've fished a few lakes, been hidden in undergrowth, put a few mixers out, the carp take one or two and then disappear totally. No chance to even cast your hookbait out.
On these lakes, put a hookbait out first and you might get one.
As for the knotless knot, I've tried tying the hook on, and having the hair 'spring' down from the knot tag end, and because there is a short length of hooklink submerged it doesn't look so obvious to fish (I think).
I know it works for me with carp and chub, and means that I can tie a new hooklink a little bit easier when I'm stupid enough to drop one over a branch and snap off. (And yes I recover it later, or let the bailiff know)
The most entertaining way of floater fishing, is when I can get them feeding at my feet, using a centre pin and the bait just touching the surface hanging straight off the rod tip.
No matter how big or small the carp, that gives a real adrenaline shot...
Personally think the key is to get them feeding confidently first and foremost prior to lobbing anything out
This is the really important bit.
I'd agree on most waters, but sometimes the first or only bait out there needs to be the hookbait.
I've fished a few lakes, been hidden in undergrowth, put a few mixers out, the carp take one or two and then disappear totally. No chance to even cast your hookbait out.
On these lakes, put a hookbait out first and you might get one.
As for the knotless knot, I've tried tying the hook on, and having the hair 'spring' down from the knot tag end, and because there is a short length of hooklink submerged it doesn't look so obvious to fish (I think).
I know it works for me with carp and chub, and means that I can tie a new hooklink a little bit easier when I'm stupid enough to drop one over a branch and snap off. (And yes I recover it later, or let the bailiff know)
The most entertaining way of floater fishing, is when I can get them feeding at my feet, using a centre pin and the bait just touching the surface hanging straight off the rod tip.
No matter how big or small the carp, that gives a real adrenaline shot...
Hi all,
I'm back into fishing after around 25 years, and I still cant believe how much it has changed...
I'd been searching for carp forums that have regular posters and posts, with a better level of angler than myself (easily done!), hence why I'm here. And reading the majority of the posts, it's great to see how into their fishing people are on here.
I'm making way more mistakes than I thought I would when fishing, but I'm enjoying it so much. I have a young son, so I am only getting out around twice a month, and that is for around five hours a time.
Surface floater fishing is for me one of the most exciting ways to fish.
Issues I've faced so far with surface fishing are:
01) Buoyancy of hook bait.
02) Whether it is better for the hook to sit above or below the bait.
03) Seeing hook bait (related to buoyancy)
04) A fairly consistent bait to keep going with on the surface
I'm slightly ashamed to say I've been doing too much of a deep dive into floater fishing paraphernalia, and bought most of the options available. Especially the options from ESP such as floating dog biscuits, mini mixers and imitation bread.
Morrisons white toastie bread has been the best bait so far.
My thoughts on whether the fish are taking the hook bait confidently enough to get hooked or not, is just based purely from viewing what's in front of me when fishing. How the hook bait reacts differently to the free offerings - sits differently and when investigated has subtle movement differences. I don't think colour effects things, but I could easily be wrong.
This thread, and the similar one titled: “Surface Fishing”, and “Surface fishing - hook size” have been truly fascinating. It feels great to be surrounded by people that want to know more, and also to share. I've learnt a lot already.
Next time I go out for a surface session I am going to try just a single bait with no free offerings. A big piece of crust.
As I said, I am trying out lots of different things, and my purchase this week is: Dynamite Baits Big Fish Floating Durable Hookbaits, Flavour: Sweet Tiger, Colour: Yellow.
I will let you know how I go with this.
I'm back into fishing after around 25 years, and I still cant believe how much it has changed...
I'd been searching for carp forums that have regular posters and posts, with a better level of angler than myself (easily done!), hence why I'm here. And reading the majority of the posts, it's great to see how into their fishing people are on here.
I'm making way more mistakes than I thought I would when fishing, but I'm enjoying it so much. I have a young son, so I am only getting out around twice a month, and that is for around five hours a time.
Surface floater fishing is for me one of the most exciting ways to fish.
Issues I've faced so far with surface fishing are:
01) Buoyancy of hook bait.
02) Whether it is better for the hook to sit above or below the bait.
03) Seeing hook bait (related to buoyancy)
04) A fairly consistent bait to keep going with on the surface
I'm slightly ashamed to say I've been doing too much of a deep dive into floater fishing paraphernalia, and bought most of the options available. Especially the options from ESP such as floating dog biscuits, mini mixers and imitation bread.
Morrisons white toastie bread has been the best bait so far.
My thoughts on whether the fish are taking the hook bait confidently enough to get hooked or not, is just based purely from viewing what's in front of me when fishing. How the hook bait reacts differently to the free offerings - sits differently and when investigated has subtle movement differences. I don't think colour effects things, but I could easily be wrong.
This thread, and the similar one titled: “Surface Fishing”, and “Surface fishing - hook size” have been truly fascinating. It feels great to be surrounded by people that want to know more, and also to share. I've learnt a lot already.
Next time I go out for a surface session I am going to try just a single bait with no free offerings. A big piece of crust.
As I said, I am trying out lots of different things, and my purchase this week is: Dynamite Baits Big Fish Floating Durable Hookbaits, Flavour: Sweet Tiger, Colour: Yellow.
I will let you know how I go with this.
In reply to Post #32
Welcome back!
Here's my personal preferences after 25 years of floater fishing...
01) Buoyancy of hook bait.
I think a cut down pop up hair rigged fairly tight to the shank is a great option, and the best in terms of longevity of the hookbait and hooking potential. . I fish this within a mixture of different buoyancy items (Cat biscuit, Chum Mixer, and Bakers Small Dog). In my eyes, the different shapes and sizes makes them move confident. Some sit lower in the water, some lay flat as they are more disc shaped. People love to strike when floater fishing, but if they are feeding that confidently, a big inline controller float (2oz+) will make sure that hook gets buried. I love the Bug Pop Ups as they can be squared off into a shape not too dissimilar from the oily Bakers Small Dog bites.
02) Whether it is better for the hook to sit above or below the bait.
I'd say 99% of floater anglers prefer the latter. When the fish sucks that hookbait in and turns, I want that hook to feel the weight of the controller as the hook buries itself into the bottom lip.
03) Seeing hook bait (related to buoyancy)
I often fish at around 70 yards+ with single pop ups. I will catapult baits close in and let the wind drift the mixers across the pond. A great way of locating a group of fish! However, whilst the mixers are drifting across, i'll cast just before showing fish and let the wind drift it over the top of them. If the hooking arrangement is good and the fish feel confident, there's no need to strike. I guess you could use a bright bait different to your free offerings, or you could (for example) cut the top off a 18mm dark pop up and the top of a 18mm white pop up and add the white bit to the dark pop up, so you have a sight bob. Never done it though, never felt the need but it's something i'll try if I need to strike wary bites.
04) A fairly consistent bait to keep going with on the surface.
As you said, bread is brilliant but I only use crust at very short range. Hair rigged pop ups will never have that "what if?" element when casting at distance. The only time you'll lose it is during the fight. The same can't be said for many other hookbaits. They are far more versatile and adaptable compared to bog standard mixer, bread or these overpriced hookable floaters which sink/disintegrate after a short period.
The good thing about my approach is you only have to change the controller based on the distance fishing. If you turn up to a lake with just a couple of 5g controllers and a loaf of bread and they are showing at 70 yards then you're at a disadvantage as bread alone won't cut the mustard in them situations. Prepare for distance work for wary fish and it'll make everything else far easier.
Welcome back!
Here's my personal preferences after 25 years of floater fishing...
01) Buoyancy of hook bait.
I think a cut down pop up hair rigged fairly tight to the shank is a great option, and the best in terms of longevity of the hookbait and hooking potential. . I fish this within a mixture of different buoyancy items (Cat biscuit, Chum Mixer, and Bakers Small Dog). In my eyes, the different shapes and sizes makes them move confident. Some sit lower in the water, some lay flat as they are more disc shaped. People love to strike when floater fishing, but if they are feeding that confidently, a big inline controller float (2oz+) will make sure that hook gets buried. I love the Bug Pop Ups as they can be squared off into a shape not too dissimilar from the oily Bakers Small Dog bites.
02) Whether it is better for the hook to sit above or below the bait.
I'd say 99% of floater anglers prefer the latter. When the fish sucks that hookbait in and turns, I want that hook to feel the weight of the controller as the hook buries itself into the bottom lip.
03) Seeing hook bait (related to buoyancy)
I often fish at around 70 yards+ with single pop ups. I will catapult baits close in and let the wind drift the mixers across the pond. A great way of locating a group of fish! However, whilst the mixers are drifting across, i'll cast just before showing fish and let the wind drift it over the top of them. If the hooking arrangement is good and the fish feel confident, there's no need to strike. I guess you could use a bright bait different to your free offerings, or you could (for example) cut the top off a 18mm dark pop up and the top of a 18mm white pop up and add the white bit to the dark pop up, so you have a sight bob. Never done it though, never felt the need but it's something i'll try if I need to strike wary bites.
04) A fairly consistent bait to keep going with on the surface.
As you said, bread is brilliant but I only use crust at very short range. Hair rigged pop ups will never have that "what if?" element when casting at distance. The only time you'll lose it is during the fight. The same can't be said for many other hookbaits. They are far more versatile and adaptable compared to bog standard mixer, bread or these overpriced hookable floaters which sink/disintegrate after a short period.
The good thing about my approach is you only have to change the controller based on the distance fishing. If you turn up to a lake with just a couple of 5g controllers and a loaf of bread and they are showing at 70 yards then you're at a disadvantage as bread alone won't cut the mustard in them situations. Prepare for distance work for wary fish and it'll make everything else far easier.
In reply to Post #32
Floater cake may be worth a look too.
Floater cake may be worth a look too.
In reply to Post #33
Hey Aidey,
Thank you mate!
I really appreciate your feedback below, and to have 25 years of floater fishing experience is awesome. You must have had a lot of fun.
And thanks for the suggestion of mixing up of pet foods - that will be great for different sizes, colours and textures.
On one of the lakes I fish there are some ok sized carp but so many smaller carp of 3 or 4 lb that just attack most free offerings. This occasionally help the bigger carp to be more confident, but is definitely an issue to get through.
I think reading your suggestion of catapulting baits close in and letting them drift, while casting a single hook bait just before showing fish and let that single hook bait drift near.
Thanks again Aidey for sharing your knowledge.
Hey Aidey,
Thank you mate!
I really appreciate your feedback below, and to have 25 years of floater fishing experience is awesome. You must have had a lot of fun.
And thanks for the suggestion of mixing up of pet foods - that will be great for different sizes, colours and textures.
On one of the lakes I fish there are some ok sized carp but so many smaller carp of 3 or 4 lb that just attack most free offerings. This occasionally help the bigger carp to be more confident, but is definitely an issue to get through.
I think reading your suggestion of catapulting baits close in and letting them drift, while casting a single hook bait just before showing fish and let that single hook bait drift near.
Thanks again Aidey for sharing your knowledge.
A good surface fishing podcast I found:
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/flota-rota-oli-davies-tom-forman-nash-off-the-hook/id1459281010?i=1000615555656
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/flota-rota-oli-davies-tom-forman-nash-off-the-hook/id1459281010?i=1000615555656
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