Is the following statement, made by a prominent bait manufacturer, about their flavours, true or false ???
" A concentrated blend of Ethanol alcohol (EA) and Propylene glycol (PG). The PG's used to emulsify and protect the EA esters due to there low boiling temperatures, EA flavours have a boiling point of 75°, waters boils at 100° and PG has a very high heat tolerance with a boiling temperature of 240 degrees, this will protect the EA flavours from any denaturing upon the boiling process "
" A concentrated blend of Ethanol alcohol (EA) and Propylene glycol (PG). The PG's used to emulsify and protect the EA esters due to there low boiling temperatures, EA flavours have a boiling point of 75°, waters boils at 100° and PG has a very high heat tolerance with a boiling temperature of 240 degrees, this will protect the EA flavours from any denaturing upon the boiling process "
In reply to Post #1
If I'm reading this right, and simplifying a bit, they're mixing one liquid with another to stop it boiling off? I guess the test is - does the bait have a scent? If so, I'd say it's probably true.
If I'm reading this right, and simplifying a bit, they're mixing one liquid with another to stop it boiling off? I guess the test is - does the bait have a scent? If so, I'd say it's probably true.
In reply to Post #1
The ea and pg are not being mixed and boiled off just as they are... even if they were then the ea would still boil off at the lower 75°c temperature.
By the time the ea is mixed with the pg, and then any other liquids, and then becomes part of the paste, the only boil off of flavours would be from the outer skin.
Too much pseudo science and not enough real world experience.
The ea and pg are not being mixed and boiled off just as they are... even if they were then the ea would still boil off at the lower 75°c temperature.
By the time the ea is mixed with the pg, and then any other liquids, and then becomes part of the paste, the only boil off of flavours would be from the outer skin.
Too much pseudo science and not enough real world experience.
In reply to Post #1
There are a lot of flavours on MPG bases, designed for heat tolerance.
What do they mean by denature? It's a broad term and at the same time a narrow one
EA itself is not an ester but is one of the alcohols you can use is esterification, however most Ethanol based eaters are sweet and fruity and this paragraph is from northern baits for their savoury squid flavour.
Given that English isn't the first language it could be lost in translation, they could simply be trying to inform us that they have a MPG squid that tolerates heat?
Pure speculation though
There are a lot of flavours on MPG bases, designed for heat tolerance.
What do they mean by denature? It's a broad term and at the same time a narrow one
EA itself is not an ester but is one of the alcohols you can use is esterification, however most Ethanol based eaters are sweet and fruity and this paragraph is from northern baits for their savoury squid flavour.
Given that English isn't the first language it could be lost in translation, they could simply be trying to inform us that they have a MPG squid that tolerates heat?
Pure speculation though
In reply to Post #4
Was for the Creamy Peach flavour i looked at, but seems to cover a wide range of flavours.
Thing that "squeezes my gonads", is adding too much scientific spouted jargon to a product, without actually knowing if said statement truly applies, OR there to indirectly/directly sway the balance, thereby convincing the buyer that the product is 100% genuine & scientifically tested, according to the description.
My radar starts beeping, as soon as a hint of overexaggeration of a product occurs
By all means, speak the science, if you can actually back it up 
Was for the Creamy Peach flavour i looked at, but seems to cover a wide range of flavours.
Thing that "squeezes my gonads", is adding too much scientific spouted jargon to a product, without actually knowing if said statement truly applies, OR there to indirectly/directly sway the balance, thereby convincing the buyer that the product is 100% genuine & scientifically tested, according to the description.
My radar starts beeping, as soon as a hint of overexaggeration of a product occurs
By all means, speak the science, if you can actually back it up
In reply to Post #5
Send Viking a PM, he was one of the original bait brains behind northern, however he and the main crew are long gone but he might know who owns it now?
Send Viking a PM, he was one of the original bait brains behind northern, however he and the main crew are long gone but he might know who owns it now?
In reply to Post #6
Mozzi ,,, i know who´s running the show at NB
Mozzi ,,, i know who´s running the show at NB
In reply to Post #1
From the little i know on this situation, i can say the boiling point of PG is not 240oC and as baitman said it wouldn't protect a EA as such. However as a solvent it will have some effect at retaining the flavour profile in a heat treated product
In bait application however - i have no idea.
From the little i know on this situation, i can say the boiling point of PG is not 240oC and as baitman said it wouldn't protect a EA as such. However as a solvent it will have some effect at retaining the flavour profile in a heat treated product
In bait application however - i have no idea.
In reply to Post #8
Where´s Chem ??? Perhaps he can explain 
Where´s Chem ??? Perhaps he can explain
In reply to Post #3
Agreed t oan extent, the inside of the boilie however will reach a certain temperature and some of the chemicals in flavours are temperature sensitive and will degrade upon heating.
Fortunately hydros are better so lets all throw flavours in the bin and get some real food in there lol
Agreed t oan extent, the inside of the boilie however will reach a certain temperature and some of the chemicals in flavours are temperature sensitive and will degrade upon heating.
Fortunately hydros are better so lets all throw flavours in the bin and get some real food in there lol
In reply to Post #1
If you want a boiling point above 100C you should blend at least 23g of ethanol with 77g of ppropylene glycol. The more propylyne glycol, the higher the boiling point. The maximum is reached by 100% propylene glycol at 188C.
Boiling/steaming bait will yield to a core temp between 70 and 85C
If you want a boiling point above 100C you should blend at least 23g of ethanol with 77g of ppropylene glycol. The more propylyne glycol, the higher the boiling point. The maximum is reached by 100% propylene glycol at 188C.
Boiling/steaming bait will yield to a core temp between 70 and 85C
In reply to Post #6
Don't get me started
Don't get me started
In reply to Post #12
Sorry Sturla The nightmare continues. Touches a sore spot 
Sorry Sturla
The nightmare continues. Touches a sore spot
In reply to Post #13
Just tell them to not run any more charities bankrupt 😁
Looks like Ynnek answered your question
Just tell them to not run any more charities bankrupt 😁
Looks like Ynnek answered your question
In reply to Post #1
Don't know but it sounds great
Don't know but it sounds great
In reply to Post #11
Surely the ethanol would evaporate off at its boiling point, even if the mixed ea and pg liquids are not actually boiling...
Surely the ethanol would evaporate off at its boiling point, even if the mixed ea and pg liquids are not actually boiling...
In reply to Post #16
The use of one liquid to increase the boiling point of another is common.
Look in you car radiator.
The use of one liquid to increase the boiling point of another is common.
Look in you car radiator.
In reply to Post #17
Or at water and ethanol mixtures.
By boiling m, you can't evaporate all ethanol out of the water!
Or at water and ethanol mixtures.
By boiling m, you can't evaporate all ethanol out of the water!
In reply to Post #17
A car radiator is a sealed system so that comparison doesn't work.
A car radiator is a sealed system so that comparison doesn't work.
In reply to Post #19
The additives still raise the boiling point, which was the point.
If it has any relevance in a boilie I don't know. No idea if the mpg has much use after being diluted in eggs and other liquid additives.
The additives still raise the boiling point, which was the point.
If it has any relevance in a boilie I don't know. No idea if the mpg has much use after being diluted in eggs and other liquid additives.
In reply to Post #20
During the bait making process, you blend different liquids. Those liquids get absorbed by the solids... The 'matrix' changes so much that it's a waste of time
During the bait making process, you blend different liquids. Those liquids get absorbed by the solids... The 'matrix' changes so much that it's a waste of time
Raising the temperature of which something boils doesn't inherent protect the other ingredients from any heat.
Boiling simply means tge temperature at which it based and vapours off. Whilst PG may stop the EA from vapourising on its own ( I'm not sure it would ) it will not change the fact that the heat exposure will degrade the flavour.
Let's just pack in the flavours and go with hydros lol
Boiling simply means tge temperature at which it based and vapours off. Whilst PG may stop the EA from vapourising on its own ( I'm not sure it would ) it will not change the fact that the heat exposure will degrade the flavour.
Let's just pack in the flavours and go with hydros lol
In reply to Post #22
I don't know enough about it. I don't really boil my paste very often anyway.
I think adding volatile compounds like in flavours may be useful.
Most hydrolysates or other ingredients will have been heated and the volatiles will be gone or change.
Hence putting some back may make a more complete signal to attract the fish. Some experiences from underwater cameras (thought in the sea) tells me volatiles definitely can make a difference.
I don't know enough about it. I don't really boil my paste very often anyway.
I think adding volatile compounds like in flavours may be useful.
Most hydrolysates or other ingredients will have been heated and the volatiles will be gone or change.
Hence putting some back may make a more complete signal to attract the fish. Some experiences from underwater cameras (thought in the sea) tells me volatiles definitely can make a difference.
In reply to Post #22
2nd that Pack in the liquid concentrated flavours and go with hydros
2nd that
Pack in the liquid concentrated flavours and go with hydros
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