Hi all, my local club lake is otter fenced but the fence was breached in the recent floods. (Repaired within a couple of days). I'm here today and there are a lot of mussel shells in many of the swims. Is there any other possibility for this other than the dreaded otter? Thinking mink perhaps.
In reply to Post #1
We had this on one of our lakes, turned out to be rats.
We had this on one of our lakes, turned out to be rats.
In reply to Post #1
Could be foxes and rats if the mussels were washing in (or out) in the floods. When you say the fence was breached, do you mean broken or that an otter was seen in the lake?
Could be foxes and rats if the mussels were washing in (or out) in the floods. When you say the fence was breached, do you mean broken or that an otter was seen in the lake?
I reckon it's mussels. ..
I got breached as well,first time in many years during the cold spell..
Anyway,here's a experience I had 10 yrs ago,fishing this lovely wild ,long pool,I kept finding crunched swan mussel shells,I found them high up on the bank,as the banking slopes upwards...
I did all the usual,looking for scales,spraint and other subtle signs,I found nothing..
Til early March,I witnessed a otter sat holding a swan mussel,like a miner of olden times,holding the crimp on a pasty..and eating it.
After that ,they lake was destroyed, carnage..
Glad you have fixed the breach,I found my entrance and exit,by the bodies,of two commons...,same kill platform of years ago
Anyway,here's a experience I had 10 yrs ago,fishing this lovely wild ,long pool,I kept finding crunched swan mussel shells,I found them high up on the bank,as the banking slopes upwards...
I did all the usual,looking for scales,spraint and other subtle signs,I found nothing..
Til early March,I witnessed a otter sat holding a swan mussel,like a miner of olden times,holding the crimp on a pasty..and eating it.
After that ,they lake was destroyed, carnage..
Glad you have fixed the breach,I found my entrance and exit,by the bodies,of two commons...,same kill platform of years ago
The gravel pits I used to fish in the '60s had a good head of swan mussels and there was always piles of empty shells in places. The coots would dive for them and eat them on the bank. How they broke the shells I never saw but the piles were always on land around large rocks so I presume they gave them a good bashing or maybe their beaks are strong enough to break them open.
Picture of a coot feeding it's chick a Mussel:-
https://www.alamy.com/adult-coot-feeding-a-juvenile-with-a-freshwater-mussel-image187265460.html
Picture of a coot feeding it's chick a Mussel:-
https://www.alamy.com/adult-coot-feeding-a-juvenile-with-a-freshwater-mussel-image187265460.html
In reply to Post #1
Hi Phil,
Apparently swan mussels will drag themselves out of the water if the water quality deteriorates. Happened on a stretch of the Elbe in 2014 when there was an ammonia spike due to rotting maggots, baits and other impurities.
Once they're on the bank they are prey to pretty much anything
Best
Jon
Hi Phil,
Apparently swan mussels will drag themselves out of the water if the water quality deteriorates. Happened on a stretch of the Elbe in 2014 when there was an ammonia spike due to rotting maggots, baits and other impurities.
Once they're on the bank they are prey to pretty much anything
Best
Jon
In reply to Post #1
s for the reply all - spoke to the bailiff while I was there - the general consesnsus is rats or coots
s for the reply all - spoke to the bailiff while I was there - the general consesnsus is rats or coots
In reply to Post #1
I think I would be asking myself – Rats and Coots have always been present, why have I not been seeing Swan Mussels in every swim all the time?
I would be having members walking as many Dogs as possible inside the perimeter of the Fence to be on the safe side, also checking every marginal under growth meticulously preferably from a kayak/Boat looking from the water to the banks.
But if you're not finding fish carcases on a almost daily basis then I'd suspect if one visited your site via entry through the broken fence, it most likely vacated the site via the same breach the same day.
I think I would be asking myself – Rats and Coots have always been present, why have I not been seeing Swan Mussels in every swim all the time?
I would be having members walking as many Dogs as possible inside the perimeter of the Fence to be on the safe side, also checking every marginal under growth meticulously preferably from a kayak/Boat looking from the water to the banks.
But if you're not finding fish carcases on a almost daily basis then I'd suspect if one visited your site via entry through the broken fence, it most likely vacated the site via the same breach the same day.
In reply to Post #9
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1550660.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1550660.stm
In reply to Post #10
Its hardly rocket science is it 😂😂😂😂
Its hardly rocket science is it 😂😂😂😂
In reply to Post #9
no fish have been found that I'm aware of. There's a decent stock of carp, tench and bream so I think if it was an otter we'd know about it.
no fish have been found that I'm aware of. There's a decent stock of carp, tench and bream so I think if it was an otter we'd know about it.
In reply to Post #12
It's always been otter related on lakes I've fished.
It's always been otter related on lakes I've fished.
I have to say,after all the lakes I have fished,some sadly with a lot of rats,due to lots of anglers leaving bait and food left around,and ever present bird life,I have never seen either..eating a mussel..I'm not saying it doesn't happen though
However,I have fished,and seen lakes,with otter predation occurring outright under the owner ,bailiffs and anglers noses with them not even noticing and seeing the subtle and not so subtle signs of fish loss..
One of the reasons is blaming other things,or creatures,or lack of predation awareness,or even disbelief that this could happen even..
One lake I know,lost lots of fish,none found on the bank,but go on the island kill platform,dear in dear..it was bad..
See ,I hopefully the OP,is right lake breached ,otter seen,otter went,breach sealed up,so many variables..,you'll never know, maybe a few roach taken but for me ,myplace I found my losses in thirty secs of arriving,and the in and out points,still even tho the lake was solid with ice,except a two foot clear bit..
I always learnt one thing about otter predation,just because there was no visible carcasses, doesn't mean fish have not been taken..
Glad the fence has been repaired,a bit of peace if mind..
However,I have fished,and seen lakes,with otter predation occurring outright under the owner ,bailiffs and anglers noses with them not even noticing and seeing the subtle and not so subtle signs of fish loss..
One of the reasons is blaming other things,or creatures,or lack of predation awareness,or even disbelief that this could happen even..
One lake I know,lost lots of fish,none found on the bank,but go on the island kill platform,dear in dear..it was bad..
See ,I hopefully the OP,is right lake breached ,otter seen,otter went,breach sealed up,so many variables..,you'll never know, maybe a few roach taken but for me ,myplace I found my losses in thirty secs of arriving,and the in and out points,still even tho the lake was solid with ice,except a two foot clear bit..
I always learnt one thing about otter predation,just because there was no visible carcasses, doesn't mean fish have not been taken..
Glad the fence has been repaired,a bit of peace if mind..
In reply to Post #14
On some lakes I know that have had otters taking fish, a carcass might not stay on the bank for more than 24 hours. It will be scavenged. Foxes and badgers can move the whole corpse, crows and other corvids will peck clean.
In the 1980's there was a single pair of otters on the River Gipping near Great Blakenham. I was told on Barham A and B pit that the mussel shells on the bank were coots and mink, yet coming down and watching convinced me otherwise. It was otters.
On some lakes I know that have had otters taking fish, a carcass might not stay on the bank for more than 24 hours. It will be scavenged. Foxes and badgers can move the whole corpse, crows and other corvids will peck clean.
In the 1980's there was a single pair of otters on the River Gipping near Great Blakenham. I was told on Barham A and B pit that the mussel shells on the bank were coots and mink, yet coming down and watching convinced me otherwise. It was otters.
In reply to Post #15
large mussel shells are one of the first things i look for when investigating otter issues.
YES lots of things eat them, but its the tell tail marks on the shell thats the give away as to if its otter/s
large mussel shells are one of the first things i look for when investigating otter issues.
YES lots of things eat them, but its the tell tail marks on the shell thats the give away as to if its otter/s
In reply to Post #14
I always learnt one thing about otter predation,just because there was no visible carcasses, doesn't mean fish have not been taken..
Don't know if you have noticed Adam, but this winter the signs are absolutely everywhere you look, be it river or un-fenced still water, the signs are so blatantly obvious they can't be fobbed off with excuses/blaming something else.
This was last week on the Ribble.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCOkuI0jXnA&t=77s
I always learnt one thing about otter predation,just because there was no visible carcasses, doesn't mean fish have not been taken..
Don't know if you have noticed Adam, but this winter the signs are absolutely everywhere you look, be it river or un-fenced still water, the signs are so blatantly obvious they can't be fobbed off with excuses/blaming something else.
This was last week on the Ribble.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCOkuI0jXnA&t=77s
In reply to Post #16
What marks would they be?
Really interested in all of this just not the political side and any information on signs etc I would really appreciate.
What marks would they be?
Really interested in all of this just not the political side and any information on signs etc I would really appreciate.
In reply to Post #18
if an otter bites, chews or marks the shell, you can tell by the gap they leave between the teeth marks mate
ive got some material on this, but im blowed if i can figure out how to post pictures on here or id show you
if an otter bites, chews or marks the shell, you can tell by the gap they leave between the teeth marks mate
ive got some material on this, but im blowed if i can figure out how to post pictures on here or id show you
In reply to Post #19
Good stuff Frenzy, keep it coming, I often see and find things but wouldn't have a clue as to pointers etc.
Good stuff Frenzy, keep it coming, I often see and find things but wouldn't have a clue as to pointers etc.
In reply to Post #19
I will add that mink absolutely love mussels.
On my lake last year i had a mink, the piles of shells it left was incredible for one animal
I will add that mink absolutely love mussels.
On my lake last year i had a mink, the piles of shells it left was incredible for one animal
In reply to Post #20
The joys of an otter trapper for UKWOT and NE mate
I see alot more than i care to mention these days
the amount of otters within fence lines since we had the floods and cold weather is scary
The joys of an otter trapper for UKWOT and NE mate
I see alot more than i care to mention these days
the amount of otters within fence lines since we had the floods and cold weather is scary
In reply to Post #22
Really interested in all of this just not the political side and any information on signs etc I would really appreciate.
Really interested in all of this just not the political side and any information on signs etc I would really appreciate.
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