I've started using PVA solid bags as the ressy is very weedy and very windy so it's hard to get on the same spot A lot of the time.
My question is how do you limit crack offs, I've read other solid bag threads and people say they get over 100yards with them, I've cracked off just now and have been using them for a couple of weeks no problem but for some reason this cast cracked off and I haven't even been pelting it and now I'm scared too!
I'm using short leadcore leader, 15lb synchro xt line and esp multi size bags with a 3oz lead and boilie crumb inside, not that heavy!?
My question is how do you limit crack offs, I've read other solid bag threads and people say they get over 100yards with them, I've cracked off just now and have been using them for a couple of weeks no problem but for some reason this cast cracked off and I haven't even been pelting it and now I'm scared too!
I'm using short leadcore leader, 15lb synchro xt line and esp multi size bags with a 3oz lead and boilie crumb inside, not that heavy!?
In reply to Post #1
Use a shockleader mate
Use a shockleader mate
In reply to Post #1
To me shockleader and leadcore in weed is a big 'NO NO', they risk the chance of a tethered fish with the fish trailing that lot around. The leader line itself is enough to pick up crap, twigs, weed stems and more rubbish as the fish swims around
You don't know if the lead clip is able to discharge if it has been jammed by weed. Helicopter rigs also must be able to eject the rig and NOT the lead, but the beads must be able to slide off. Again, a kink or dirt in a bead can jam it up.
In my personal opinion you are better with an inline or running lead arrangement, with the lead and rig inside the bag, properly loaded.
Get a good decent mainline, I personally found 15lb Gardner Pro (light or dark) or Daiwa Sensor in brown worked for that sort of distance. Be smooth with your casting, controlled thrash I believe it has been described as.
If your line has cracked off, then you need to check and change it all, you have gone beyond its yield point, and may have weakened it well beyond where it cracked off.
To me shockleader and leadcore in weed is a big 'NO NO', they risk the chance of a tethered fish with the fish trailing that lot around. The leader line itself is enough to pick up crap, twigs, weed stems and more rubbish as the fish swims around
You don't know if the lead clip is able to discharge if it has been jammed by weed. Helicopter rigs also must be able to eject the rig and NOT the lead, but the beads must be able to slide off. Again, a kink or dirt in a bead can jam it up.
In my personal opinion you are better with an inline or running lead arrangement, with the lead and rig inside the bag, properly loaded.
Get a good decent mainline, I personally found 15lb Gardner Pro (light or dark) or Daiwa Sensor in brown worked for that sort of distance. Be smooth with your casting, controlled thrash I believe it has been described as.
If your line has cracked off, then you need to check and change it all, you have gone beyond its yield point, and may have weakened it well beyond where it cracked off.
In reply to Post #3
My question wasn't whether my rig was safe it was how to avoid crack offs. My rig is safe as can be with using a leader. And I just mean silkweed on the bottom not big weedbeds.
I will look into a shock leader 👍🏼
My question wasn't whether my rig was safe it was how to avoid crack offs. My rig is safe as can be with using a leader. And I just mean silkweed on the bottom not big weedbeds.
I will look into a shock leader 👍🏼
In reply to Post #4
your bag needs to be smaller i think, the 100 x 100 mm bags with a 2oz lead, lots of crumb packed in tomake a egg size, as hard as a stone, and .35 mainline no leader
your bag needs to be smaller i think, the 100 x 100 mm bags with a 2oz lead, lots of crumb packed in tomake a egg size, as hard as a stone, and .35 mainline no leader
In reply to Post #5
The bag I'm using is 60x120
The bag I'm using is 60x120
In reply to Post #1
Use a leader or drop down the lead size a bit, and look at your casting action. Keep it smooth and controlled and you shouldn't have any problems
Use a leader or drop down the lead size a bit, and look at your casting action. Keep it smooth and controlled and you shouldn't have any problems
In reply to Post #1
get some greased lightning, helps stop this.
get some greased lightning, helps stop this.
In reply to Post #1
When you say 'cracked off' what actually happened, did the line part due to the force of the cast or did it 'frap' around a rod ring, there is a big difference in cause and remedies?
When you say 'cracked off' what actually happened, did the line part due to the force of the cast or did it 'frap' around a rod ring, there is a big difference in cause and remedies?
In reply to Post #4
To me I gave you my viewpoint, I'm sorry if it offends you, that shockleaders or leadcore are not safe in any weedy or snaggy waters.
I then explained how to avoid crack-offs with line straight through. I have fished waters with weed myself, and had to go leader free, even with long distance casting to over 100metres.
Fish safety is paramount, and that is important, and using a leader increases the risk, so is not safe.
By the way, who do you play American football for?
I take it that is you under the helmet?
To me I gave you my viewpoint, I'm sorry if it offends you, that shockleaders or leadcore are not safe in any weedy or snaggy waters.
I then explained how to avoid crack-offs with line straight through. I have fished waters with weed myself, and had to go leader free, even with long distance casting to over 100metres.
Fish safety is paramount, and that is important, and using a leader increases the risk, so is not safe.
By the way, who do you play American football for?
I take it that is you under the helmet?
In reply to Post #10
No I get your point but whether leaders are safe or not is another whole debate isn't it and that isn't what I asked.
The ressy I fish has rocks going down and I to the water which when you hook a fish it cuts you off without a heavy duty leader, so what's worse, fishing a leader which 99% of the time stops you getting cut off etc therefore landing the fish or not using a leader and 9/10 fish you hook cutting you off and trailing a hooklink?
I don't know if the American football comment is a joke or what but no it's Adam Sandler from waterboy...
No I get your point but whether leaders are safe or not is another whole debate isn't it and that isn't what I asked.
The ressy I fish has rocks going down and I to the water which when you hook a fish it cuts you off without a heavy duty leader, so what's worse, fishing a leader which 99% of the time stops you getting cut off etc therefore landing the fish or not using a leader and 9/10 fish you hook cutting you off and trailing a hooklink?
I don't know if the American football comment is a joke or what but no it's Adam Sandler from waterboy...
A water I fish has a no leader ban.
Rules state if distance fishing you must use tapered mainline
Tried the Fox Exocet 15-35 and found it very good for solid bag distance fishing.
Make my bags up to weigh 4oz and have no problems with crack offs when going 100yds +.
Rules state if distance fishing you must use tapered mainline
Tried the Fox Exocet 15-35 and found it very good for solid bag distance fishing.
Make my bags up to weigh 4oz and have no problems with crack offs when going 100yds +.
In reply to Post #12
Awesome cheers guys 👍🏼
Awesome cheers guys 👍🏼
In reply to Post #4
A shockleaders will only work if its long enough. If you are distance casting with bags you definitely need a shock leader if they are allowed or tapered mainline if they are not. 15lb line is not up to the task. For choice I would use 30ft(10yds) of 50lb Armacord or similar. This will cope with repeated casting and retrieval through weed, over gravel etc. The non stretch leader will help with distance slightly as well. Make sure your rig is safe and correctly constructed. Good luck, crack on not off.
A shockleaders will only work if its long enough. If you are distance casting with bags you definitely need a shock leader if they are allowed or tapered mainline if they are not. 15lb line is not up to the task. For choice I would use 30ft(10yds) of 50lb Armacord or similar. This will cope with repeated casting and retrieval through weed, over gravel etc. The non stretch leader will help with distance slightly as well. Make sure your rig is safe and correctly constructed. Good luck, crack on not off.
In reply to Post #3
Lot of subjective and unsubstantiated personal opinion here. I sense a bit of a crusading vibe. Shock leaders have been developed and are used because they are essential for safe distance casting. (as well as improving performance) Tournament casting, beachcasting and any longrange casting with powerful rods and weights exceeding 3oz or even 2.5oz requires the use of shockleaders for angler and fish safety, whatever some fisheries and syndicates decide.if that upsets some people, tough, this is a crusade. The only good working alternative is tapered mainline. Be safe.
Lot of subjective and unsubstantiated personal opinion here. I sense a bit of a crusading vibe. Shock leaders have been developed and are used because they are essential for safe distance casting. (as well as improving performance) Tournament casting, beachcasting and any longrange casting with powerful rods and weights exceeding 3oz or even 2.5oz requires the use of shockleaders for angler and fish safety, whatever some fisheries and syndicates decide.if that upsets some people, tough, this is a crusade. The only good working alternative is tapered mainline. Be safe.
In reply to Post #12
Yep I use the fox double taper mainline... Its very good indeed.
Yep I use the fox double taper mainline... Its very good indeed.
If I'm fishing bags at range (100yrds ish) I use 50lb Armacord shock leader with 3-4 turns on the reel and 12lb main line. Never had a crack off (touches wood).
In reply to Post #1
You shouldn't be cracking off on 15lb synchro xt it breaks at nearly 22lb, i use it with solid bags straight through. 3 oz in-line Lead and small esp Solid bags or the Korda XS bags, total weight is about 4.25oz ... . I Bang them as hard as I can, normally 110- 120 yds and never once cracked off.... are you flapping up on the cast? Something is not right if your cracking off at that line.
You shouldn't be cracking off on 15lb synchro xt it breaks at nearly 22lb, i use it with solid bags straight through. 3 oz in-line Lead and small esp Solid bags or the Korda XS bags, total weight is about 4.25oz ... . I Bang them as hard as I can, normally 110- 120 yds and never once cracked off.... are you flapping up on the cast? Something is not right if your cracking off at that line.
In reply to Post #18
That's the point. You are obviously a smooth careful caster and you are getting away with it. Lot of people aren't and don't. Shockleaders or tapered lines provide a big safety margin. I would say you are well past safe margins casting 4.5oz 120 yds on any 15lb line but power to your elbow.
That's the point. You are obviously a smooth careful caster and you are getting away with it. Lot of people aren't and don't. Shockleaders or tapered lines provide a big safety margin. I would say you are well past safe margins casting 4.5oz 120 yds on any 15lb line but power to your elbow.
In reply to Post #19
But we still don't know if it's the force of the cast or a frap that's causing it?
But we still don't know if it's the force of the cast or a frap that's causing it?
Thought at first glance it read as solid bag of crack.
In reply to Post #20
I don't think it's frapping I'm quite a smooth caster never had a crack off before with anything including spods.
I don't think it's frapping I'm quite a smooth caster never had a crack off before with anything including spods.
Ok, so at which point in the cast is the line parting and where does the bag end up, also what does the end of the reel line that's left look like?
In reply to Post #23
Try a longer drop on the rod, you want to be just above the spigot.
Try a longer drop on the rod, you want to be just above the spigot.
In reply to Post #23
The bag went where I wanted it to go, the line was like it had been scrumpled up
The bag went where I wanted it to go, the line was like it had been scrumpled up
In reply to Post #24
It was just above the spigot about 1.2-1.3m
It was just above the spigot about 1.2-1.3m
In reply to Post #25
If it's scrumpled up, could it be line twist adding to the equation?
If it's scrumpled up, could it be line twist adding to the equation?
In reply to Post #25
If it has crumpled up, usually the line has been put beyond its yield point. As it 'cracks', it stretches to breaking point, then retracts.
If it was line twist, there would usually be a 'curl' above the break.
My point was this, which IS RELEVANT, if it made you think about fish safety, which it should, if not, then sorry, you are ignoring fish care and fish safety. Not a crusade, a simple concern for NOT leaving any fish any chance of getting tethered and dying because of it.
I have done a fair bit of distance casting, using 2.75lb rods, getting to well over 100metres (125 tops), and now using 3.25lb rods, and having to go back to using a full shock leader even with 15lb, but there is no weed in my water.
On the 2.75 rods, with PVA bags and everything inside, I had to drop to a 2oz lead and use small bags so it went to no more than 31/2oz in total.
My comment about American Football, I played for long enough in this country, and didn't recognise Adam Sandler, even though I have seen The Waterboy.
If it has crumpled up, usually the line has been put beyond its yield point. As it 'cracks', it stretches to breaking point, then retracts.
If it was line twist, there would usually be a 'curl' above the break.
My point was this, which IS RELEVANT, if it made you think about fish safety, which it should, if not, then sorry, you are ignoring fish care and fish safety. Not a crusade, a simple concern for NOT leaving any fish any chance of getting tethered and dying because of it.
I have done a fair bit of distance casting, using 2.75lb rods, getting to well over 100metres (125 tops), and now using 3.25lb rods, and having to go back to using a full shock leader even with 15lb, but there is no weed in my water.
On the 2.75 rods, with PVA bags and everything inside, I had to drop to a 2oz lead and use small bags so it went to no more than 31/2oz in total.
My comment about American Football, I played for long enough in this country, and didn't recognise Adam Sandler, even though I have seen The Waterboy.
In reply to Post #25
Sounds like frap to me is the most likely cause apart from damaged line maybe, I wouldn't say that's a big enough chuck to crack off unless frapping on a ring with 15lb line, especially seeing as XT as already mentioned is really 21-22lb.
The cause could be anything from line twist to the rod and reel not being suited, technique plays a big part as well, but the easiet option is a shockleader, a braid one making a big difference to distance as it compresses the rod more efficiently. I use the ESP 60x120 bags and they are small so should be easy to bung 100 yards if you have the right gear
Sounds like frap to me is the most likely cause apart from damaged line maybe, I wouldn't say that's a big enough chuck to crack off unless frapping on a ring with 15lb line, especially seeing as XT as already mentioned is really 21-22lb.
The cause could be anything from line twist to the rod and reel not being suited, technique plays a big part as well, but the easiet option is a shockleader, a braid one making a big difference to distance as it compresses the rod more efficiently. I use the ESP 60x120 bags and they are small so should be easy to bung 100 yards if you have the right gear
Just my opinion but .35 line ain't going to cope with belting 4 oz ish unless you are very smooth. Used to do a bit of casting a wile ago and we used .40 for level line 4oz work still needed to be smooth to keep it all together.
Could be the knot to the leadcore has failed because the mono was damaged when tightening, a frap up or damaged line due to excessive twist or wear. I have seen loads of dodgy knots to leadcore or swivel if fishing straight through.
The rod action is also a factor...
I used to fish large solid bags using 15lb big game and beefy 3.5lb rods but they were more through action, so the acceleration, loading and release on the cast were 'smoother' than on a faster actioned rod.
The rod action is also a factor...
I used to fish large solid bags using 15lb big game and beefy 3.5lb rods but they were more through action, so the acceleration, loading and release on the cast were 'smoother' than on a faster actioned rod.
In reply to Post #1
Just a thought but could it be a cracked ring be causing the problem? Sychro in 15lb should be pretty bullet proof as already stated. Rub the line hard on each part of every eye and inspect it after. A hairline crack would be near impossible to see but that should reveal if there is one present.
Just a thought but could it be a cracked ring be causing the problem? Sychro in 15lb should be pretty bullet proof as already stated. Rub the line hard on each part of every eye and inspect it after. A hairline crack would be near impossible to see but that should reveal if there is one present.
In reply to Post #1
The strain on the line is too much as others have said, you need a leader of some sort to take the strain of the cast.
Tapered leader or tapered line will solve it. Then you can whack it as hard as you like.
The strain on the line is too much as others have said, you need a leader of some sort to take the strain of the cast.
Tapered leader or tapered line will solve it. Then you can whack it as hard as you like.
In reply to Post #33
if allowed in my experience casting 4 oz or there abouts long range a 0.32 mainline and a tapered leader has never let me down hitting 120 yards, tbh lots of people say they casting solid bags 100 yards plus and there no where near,its not an easy thing to do
if allowed in my experience casting 4 oz or there abouts long range a 0.32 mainline and a tapered leader has never let me down hitting 120 yards, tbh lots of people say they casting solid bags 100 yards plus and there no where near,its not an easy thing to do
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