I've been using slightly elevated levels of Betaine hcl in a fish meal mix and was looking into adding citric for an investigation trigger as I have used it in some other previous mixes.
So my question is, would having both in 1 mix have any adverse effect on each other as I know they both reduce ph levels.
Is there a point where there is too much of a ph drop, or do they work on different levels?
Any help/info appreciated?
So my question is, would having both in 1 mix have any adverse effect on each other as I know they both reduce ph levels.
Is there a point where there is too much of a ph drop, or do they work on different levels?
Any help/info appreciated?
In reply to Post #1
Hi Kev
Just a suggestion. Why not try the citric in place of the betaine before mixing the both of them first. You may or may not find it better but I feel there is a very fine margin with the citric inclusion especially when used with other acidic attractors.
Hi Kev
Just a suggestion. Why not try the citric in place of the betaine before mixing the both of them first. You may or may not find it better but I feel there is a very fine margin with the citric inclusion especially when used with other acidic attractors.
In reply to Post #2
What would you say is the optimum inclusion rate for citric acid in the absence of any other acidic ingredients?
What would you say is the optimum inclusion rate for citric acid in the absence of any other acidic ingredients?
In reply to Post #3
6 to 10gram per kg mix
6 to 10gram per kg mix
In reply to Post #2
Appreciate the comments, the fine line was my concern on using both.
Will try the citric alone first as always had good results using in the past.
Appreciate the comments, the fine line was my concern on using both.
Will try the citric alone first as always had good results using in the past.
In reply to Post #5
Reply to post 1
Need to know the quantities of each of the two chemicals you are considering using to give a a definitive answer.
The easy way out of this is to use anhydrous betaine ( trimethylglycine) instead of betaine HCL .This will have no significant effect on acidity. Will reply to your PM later
Reply to post 1
Need to know the quantities of each of the two chemicals you are considering using to give a a definitive answer.
The easy way out of this is to use anhydrous betaine ( trimethylglycine) instead of betaine HCL .This will have no significant effect on acidity. Will reply to your PM later
I err on the side of caution with CA, 2g/kg.
In reply to Post #7
If I am honest I completely agree with you on that one Ken.
If I am honest I completely agree with you on that one Ken.
In reply to Post #8
Really, always assumed the talked about 1g per egg was a safe level to use.
Really, always assumed the talked about 1g per egg was a safe level to use.
In reply to Post #9
It is! I've been fooling around with for a decade now, for me 5gr/kg mix, 2gr/liter for a glug or soak and 2gram/egg for hookbaits are the go-to amounts
It is! I've been fooling around with for a decade now, for me 5gr/kg mix, 2gr/liter for a glug or soak and 2gram/egg for hookbaits are the go-to amounts
In reply to Post #10
My suggestion was solely for the base mix. Yes, you can go higher for glugs or boosted hookbaits as it is then solely an investigation trigger. In with the base mix it becomes not only and investigation trigger but is also of nutritional benefit.
My suggestion was solely for the base mix. Yes, you can go higher for glugs or boosted hookbaits as it is then solely an investigation trigger. In with the base mix it becomes not only and investigation trigger but is also of nutritional benefit.
In reply to Post #11
Never knew it had any nutritional benefit only knew it was mainly used solely as an investigation trigger.
Learn something new every day, appreciate all your help Gents.
Never knew it had any nutritional benefit only knew it was mainly used solely as an investigation trigger.
Learn something new every day, appreciate all your help Gents.
In reply to Post #12
It's anti-bacterial and can can aid digestion.
It's anti-bacterial and can can aid digestion.
In reply to Post #13
Great preservative qualities to boot. Citric acid is mostly used as a chelating agent, acidifier and flavoring .
In biochemistry, it is an intermediate in the citric acid cycle, which occurs in the metabolism of all aerobic organisms. Whereas All shelled underwater freshwater creatures also contain amounts of betaine among their make up, so in essence it would appear that the natural attraction is inherent in both additives being found naturally occurring within their environment.
Great preservative qualities to boot. Citric acid is mostly used as a chelating agent, acidifier and flavoring .
In biochemistry, it is an intermediate in the citric acid cycle, which occurs in the metabolism of all aerobic organisms. Whereas All shelled underwater freshwater creatures also contain amounts of betaine among their make up, so in essence it would appear that the natural attraction is inherent in both additives being found naturally occurring within their environment.
In reply to Post #14
Thought I would bump this thread as it still had some mileage in it as to the original question if Citric Acid and Betaine could be mixed in a feed bait and if so , what levels are considered effective. Would it be basemix dependent, ie, Fishmeal , milk or Birdy based, that would determine levels or would that not enter the equation?
Thought I would bump this thread as it still had some mileage in it as to the original question if Citric Acid and Betaine could be mixed in a feed bait and if so , what levels are considered effective. Would it be basemix dependent, ie, Fishmeal , milk or Birdy based, that would determine levels or would that not enter the equation?