Hi folks!
I was wondering how to improve the digestive properties of bait for carp, given their simple digestive system.
I was interested in a comment by Frank Warwick that adding brocacel improves a bait from 15% to 60% digestable by using 3% per volume.
I wondered what else can be used?
I'm thinking about boilies here (all types, 50/50, milk proteins, fish meal, and bird food etc)
Your thoughts please!
I was wondering how to improve the digestive properties of bait for carp, given their simple digestive system.
I was interested in a comment by Frank Warwick that adding brocacel improves a bait from 15% to 60% digestable by using 3% per volume.
I wondered what else can be used?
I'm thinking about boilies here (all types, 50/50, milk proteins, fish meal, and bird food etc)
Your thoughts please!
In reply to Post #1
here are a few links that will give food for thought.
https://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/42449/fishing/homemade_carp_bait_secrets_and_bait_attractors.html
https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/S0007114554000372
here are a few links that will give food for thought.
https://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/42449/fishing/homemade_carp_bait_secrets_and_bait_attractors.html
https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/S0007114554000372
In reply to Post #1
Hi GB,
Choose good quality proteins with high digestibility to match carp nutritional requirement and address FLAA.
Limiting AAs greatly reduce the utilisation of the protein.
BB.
Hi GB,
Choose good quality proteins with high digestibility to match carp nutritional requirement and address FLAA.
Limiting AAs greatly reduce the utilisation of the protein.
BB.
In reply to Post #1
Utter rubbish by FW... Without knowing the whole mix, you can't address FLAA, and without that you won't have a clue about digestibility. Which is pretty much what BB had said in a more polite manner.
Utter rubbish by FW... Without knowing the whole mix, you can't address FLAA, and without that you won't have a clue about digestibility. Which is pretty much what BB had said in a more polite manner.
In reply to Post #1
I believe some meat tenderisers contain amylase which help with digestibility
I believe some meat tenderisers contain amylase which help with digestibility
In reply to Post #5
Why would a meat tenderiser include a carb Enzyme? Do you know what you are talking about or guessing? They often contain a tiny percentage of papain (of unknown strength) and are completely and utterly useless for bait making.
Why would a meat tenderiser include a carb Enzyme? Do you know what you are talking about or guessing? They often contain a tiny percentage of papain (of unknown strength) and are completely and utterly useless for bait making.
In reply to Post #4
Yes, I noted that he didn't mention what sort of base mix he was referring to in his comments - hence my querie relating to the popular base mix types. That's why I posted on here to get more understanding of how this actually works in practice.
High BB35 Please kindly explain FLAA's to me. I had a quick google, (as one does) Wikipedia it and I'm assuming the L is levartory ( lefthanded protiens ) but after that it's way too complicated for me to understand! So if you could kindly put it in layman's terms ish or refer me to some gentle reading about It I would be grateful. Tim Paisley's chapter called Heavy chemistry in Carp! Has been a good starting point for me. What makes a high quality protein digestible, is it the ease at which it can be broken down into its components? How can I tell?
what about fats and carbohydrates in terms of carp digestion?
Does the density of the bait make a difference? I have heard that more “open” mixes make a difference to digestability...
What about egg shells and oyster grit? I seem to remember that it was popular to add these to a base mix too at one stage?
Yes, I noted that he didn't mention what sort of base mix he was referring to in his comments - hence my querie relating to the popular base mix types. That's why I posted on here to get more understanding of how this actually works in practice.
High BB35 Please kindly explain FLAA's to me. I had a quick google, (as one does) Wikipedia it and I'm assuming the L is levartory ( lefthanded protiens ) but after that it's way too complicated for me to understand! So if you could kindly put it in layman's terms ish or refer me to some gentle reading about It I would be grateful. Tim Paisley's chapter called Heavy chemistry in Carp! Has been a good starting point for me. What makes a high quality protein digestible, is it the ease at which it can be broken down into its components? How can I tell?
what about fats and carbohydrates in terms of carp digestion?
Does the density of the bait make a difference? I have heard that more “open” mixes make a difference to digestability...
What about egg shells and oyster grit? I seem to remember that it was popular to add these to a base mix too at one stage?
In reply to Post #2
Thanks for those links Neil no Fish (surely not!). I shall peruse with much interest
Thanks for those links Neil no Fish (surely not!). I shall peruse with much interest
In reply to Post #8
From another thread
Doesn't answer your question but a interesting read none the less
From another thread
Doesn't answer your question but a interesting read none the less
In reply to Post #7
FLAA stands for first limiting amino acids. They are Aminos acids that the carp cannot produce themselves and the belief is that they instinctively search them out. The amino acids that fall into this group are Methionine and Tryptophan.
To cover FLAA, the amino profile of each of the ingredients has to to be studied to see if the said amino acids are present.
FLAA stands for first limiting amino acids. They are Aminos acids that the carp cannot produce themselves and the belief is that they instinctively search them out. The amino acids that fall into this group are Methionine and Tryptophan.
To cover FLAA, the amino profile of each of the ingredients has to to be studied to see if the said amino acids are present.
In reply to Post #10
FLAA is about nutrition, not attraction, and nothing to do with AA's that carp can't produce themselves. I don't think there is any evidence of carp searching out for specific AA's.
It's as BB said correctly earlier.
FLAA is about nutrition, not attraction, and nothing to do with AA's that carp can't produce themselves. I don't think there is any evidence of carp searching out for specific AA's.
It's as BB said correctly earlier.
In reply to Post #7
Hi GB,
In say, 1 kg of feed, carp will require a set number of gms of each of the 10 essential AAs to synthesize the protein. If one is less than the requirement, that is the FLAA and when that is used up, the synthesis stops and the rest of the protein becomes unusable. If an FLAA is seriously depleted, it can mean only a small percentage of the protein is usable.
The digestibility of quality proteins is given in their nutritional profile, e.g. LT94 is stated as 94% digestible.
Carp use lipids as an energy source and carbs too to certain extent. Carp, apparently have an efficient digestive system to assimilate carbs.
I wouldn't think bait density, egg shells and grit would have any influence on digestion.
BB.
Hi GB,
In say, 1 kg of feed, carp will require a set number of gms of each of the 10 essential AAs to synthesize the protein. If one is less than the requirement, that is the FLAA and when that is used up, the synthesis stops and the rest of the protein becomes unusable. If an FLAA is seriously depleted, it can mean only a small percentage of the protein is usable.
The digestibility of quality proteins is given in their nutritional profile, e.g. LT94 is stated as 94% digestible.
Carp use lipids as an energy source and carbs too to certain extent. Carp, apparently have an efficient digestive system to assimilate carbs.
I wouldn't think bait density, egg shells and grit would have any influence on digestion.
BB.
In reply to Post #12
In reply to Post #12
Thanks for the replies folks!
BB when you say LT94 is 94% digestible is that, period, or just as a Carp digests it?
Thanks for the replies folks!
BB when you say LT94 is 94% digestible is that, period, or just as a Carp digests it?
May I offer an alternative...
We are trying to catch them, not give them a complete food source to satisfy them wholly. At best we can only supplement their diet, as nature has it covered with evolution in most cases.
If they are shatting bait out I would see it as a sign they
A - like the bait
B - enjoy eating it
C - I have a chance of catching one.
Not filling them up so they sit in snags for days totally 'nutritionally complete'
We are trying to catch them, not give them a complete food source to satisfy them wholly. At best we can only supplement their diet, as nature has it covered with evolution in most cases.
If they are shatting bait out I would see it as a sign they
A - like the bait
B - enjoy eating it
C - I have a chance of catching one.
Not filling them up so they sit in snags for days totally 'nutritionally complete'