In reply to Post #1117
Out of your 48 posts made on this forum, 38 have been on this thread. You talked about "motives" earlier - what's yours?
Out of your 48 posts made on this forum, 38 have been on this thread. You talked about "motives" earlier - what's yours?
In reply to Post #1118
In this instance? To show the ABSOLUTE HORROR that this device is. Very clear to all isn't it? Or am I being too vague?
In this instance? To show the ABSOLUTE HORROR that this device is. Very clear to all isn't it? Or am I being too vague?
In reply to Post #1119
haha, no you're not being vague.
*Playing Devils Advocate* - should this thing be banned on waters without snags, weed etc?
Somewhere that it can't actually cause an issue? From what I can tell - having inspected them in the local tackle shop - they're going to be fine in weedless, snag free, featureless holes in the ground.
haha, no you're not being vague.
*Playing Devils Advocate* - should this thing be banned on waters without snags, weed etc?
Somewhere that it can't actually cause an issue? From what I can tell - having inspected them in the local tackle shop - they're going to be fine in weedless, snag free, featureless holes in the ground.
In reply to Post #1120
I cannot see a place for this in ANY venue. Weeds or otherwise.
Not that it needs repeating, but let's do that anyway...
1. It's fixed to the hook length, it's not configured to break away
2. It has the aesthetic of an anchor
3. Its arms splay in the direction of the hook, thus worst situation when being towed on crack off
4. Its plastic so there "forever" once broken off the main line
We have spent 20 years+, up until contemporary times configuring and creating rigs where the idea of fixing an item to the hook is an absolute no no. Never mind one with the attributes this device has.
Whatever the configuration of the lake is, I see no situation where the use of this is justifiable. If a carp takes one of these that are paired off the main line, on the lake bed, the animal's chances became very poor. Its dragging its little anchor for a long, long time. OR it becomes so desperate, that it tries to tear its mouth. But I expect its more likely to just tether and die.
I cannot see a place for this in ANY venue. Weeds or otherwise.
Not that it needs repeating, but let's do that anyway...
1. It's fixed to the hook length, it's not configured to break away
2. It has the aesthetic of an anchor
3. Its arms splay in the direction of the hook, thus worst situation when being towed on crack off
4. Its plastic so there "forever" once broken off the main line
We have spent 20 years+, up until contemporary times configuring and creating rigs where the idea of fixing an item to the hook is an absolute no no. Never mind one with the attributes this device has.
Whatever the configuration of the lake is, I see no situation where the use of this is justifiable. If a carp takes one of these that are paired off the main line, on the lake bed, the animal's chances became very poor. Its dragging its little anchor for a long, long time. OR it becomes so desperate, that it tries to tear its mouth. But I expect its more likely to just tether and die.
In reply to Post #1121
Well, there's not a "need" for a lot of things in carp fishing, so that's a moot point really.
Your points 1-4 could apply to lots of different bits and pieces that get attached to the end of our lines.
We've all seen rigs / set ups - made with what should be safe components - that are anything but safe, due to issues created by the user. There are many other items that have the potential to create death rigs - barbed hooks, leadcore + other leaders, loads of bits of metal all over hooklinks, etc. If this is really all about fish care, then those things (and probably loads of other things) should be banned on all waters too - unless you want to argue that it's the anglers responsibility to ensure they're using rigs and components are safe for any given situation (which I would agree with wholeheartedly). The same logic would apply to this thing too.
If a venue wants to ban it, that's down to them. However, this whole notion of a blanket ban for an item or bit of equipment that may cause issues in a specific scenario doesn't seem viable.
Well, there's not a "need" for a lot of things in carp fishing, so that's a moot point really.
Your points 1-4 could apply to lots of different bits and pieces that get attached to the end of our lines.
We've all seen rigs / set ups - made with what should be safe components - that are anything but safe, due to issues created by the user. There are many other items that have the potential to create death rigs - barbed hooks, leadcore + other leaders, loads of bits of metal all over hooklinks, etc. If this is really all about fish care, then those things (and probably loads of other things) should be banned on all waters too - unless you want to argue that it's the anglers responsibility to ensure they're using rigs and components are safe for any given situation (which I would agree with wholeheartedly). The same logic would apply to this thing too.
If a venue wants to ban it, that's down to them. However, this whole notion of a blanket ban for an item or bit of equipment that may cause issues in a specific scenario doesn't seem viable.
In reply to Post #1122
Your paragraph 3 read in conjunction with my points.
I have not seen a contemporary (years) device configured in the way this is. The "other" things you talk of are generally set up and configured to pair away should the worst happen.
This is not. It's fixed, its shape is counter to escape and I find it unfathomable that it went from an idea to sale in its current form.
It really needs to be outlawed everywhere, else, all we have learned to date in terms of maximising safety stood for nothing. Its fixed on and it is not right.
Your paragraph 3 read in conjunction with my points.
I have not seen a contemporary (years) device configured in the way this is. The "other" things you talk of are generally set up and configured to pair away should the worst happen.
This is not. It's fixed, its shape is counter to escape and I find it unfathomable that it went from an idea to sale in its current form.
It really needs to be outlawed everywhere, else, all we have learned to date in terms of maximising safety stood for nothing. Its fixed on and it is not right.
In reply to Post #1123
A dangerous set up is a dangerous set up, regardless of what it consists of. Leadcore and barbed hooks can cause serious (fatal) issues in certain scenarios and in the wrong hands. Venues ban them, shops still sell them.
Conversely, there are scenarios where this twig thing will not be problematic. As such, the call to ban an item outright is illogical. I think the fisheries are doing it the right way and taking the decisions themselves, whether they ban it or not, it has to be their choice and that choice is specific to the circumstances of their venue and not the worst case scenario that you and I can dream up. If that's how things worked then nothing would be on the shelves and none of us would even be here discussing it.
A dangerous set up is a dangerous set up, regardless of what it consists of. Leadcore and barbed hooks can cause serious (fatal) issues in certain scenarios and in the wrong hands. Venues ban them, shops still sell them.
Conversely, there are scenarios where this twig thing will not be problematic. As such, the call to ban an item outright is illogical. I think the fisheries are doing it the right way and taking the decisions themselves, whether they ban it or not, it has to be their choice and that choice is specific to the circumstances of their venue and not the worst case scenario that you and I can dream up. If that's how things worked then nothing would be on the shelves and none of us would even be here discussing it.
In reply to Post #1124
It's brilliant to see that the vast, vast majority of clubs, syndicate controllers and private water owners up and down the United Kingdom can see this device and the risks it poses and have consequently outlawed its use.
Further, its also very comforting to note that alongside that, rational, right minded anglers are in agreement.
It's brilliant to see that the vast, vast majority of clubs, syndicate controllers and private water owners up and down the United Kingdom can see this device and the risks it poses and have consequently outlawed its use.
Further, its also very comforting to note that alongside that, rational, right minded anglers are in agreement.
In reply to Post #1125
Totally agree 👍
Totally agree 👍
If it was really all about fish care then the obsessed could also post 50 times on the sewage threads or the otter threads. They might have views on barbless hooks or leadcore. They don't because it's not. Ali must be paying plenty of rent for all the heads he seems to live inside.
In reply to Post #1125
It's actually more comforting that it's the venues that ultimately get to decide and not people on the internet who have an axe to grind. Have a good one.
It's actually more comforting that it's the venues that ultimately get to decide and not people on the internet who have an axe to grind. Have a good one.
In reply to Post #1128
...and that's not too many is it, relatively....? RKB
...and that's not too many is it, relatively....? RKB
In reply to Post #1125
"vast vast majority"....really? I can think of a few old boys clubs that won't even know of it's existence
"vast vast majority"....really? I can think of a few old boys clubs that won't even know of it's existence
In reply to Post #1124
That's a great point.
Once again being Devils Advocate, (I'm not defending anything @cbailey, certainly not the Twig) is it any worse than, for example, the Korda Heli-Safe? Something that actually advocates "safety" in its title but is in fact (potentially) a death rig which drops the lead and leaves a fish trailing yards of leadcore behind it to get snagged up in whatever?
The lakes will Police the Twig and any other piece of end tackle to be fair. If they feel something is "safe" then that's their opinion, thereafter the Angler has a choice whether to use something or not....
That's a great point.
Once again being Devils Advocate, (I'm not defending anything @cbailey, certainly not the Twig) is it any worse than, for example, the Korda Heli-Safe? Something that actually advocates "safety" in its title but is in fact (potentially) a death rig which drops the lead and leaves a fish trailing yards of leadcore behind it to get snagged up in whatever?
The lakes will Police the Twig and any other piece of end tackle to be fair. If they feel something is "safe" then that's their opinion, thereafter the Angler has a choice whether to use something or not....
In reply to Post #1130
Let's make a list of who's permitting it and who's banning it eh?
Every club I am connected with or involved with in some capacity have banned it in the north.
I would say the vast, vast, majority have. List the ones that permit it if you would, I think we can quite easily get a list together of those that outlaw it.
Let's make a list of who's permitting it and who's banning it eh?
Every club I am connected with or involved with in some capacity have banned it in the north.
I would say the vast, vast, majority have. List the ones that permit it if you would, I think we can quite easily get a list together of those that outlaw it.