In reply to Post #88
All ‘feed' baits (not hookbaits, which are classed as lures) sold in this country SHOULD have a best before date, nutritional analysis and list of ingredients on the label, as well as the FSA/TS Feed Hygiene Registration number and APHA ABP number.
These are requirements of U.K. animal feed regulations, under which bait is regulated, and any U.K. manufacturer not meeting these requirements is in breach of regulations and risks a visit from Trading Standards.
Only reason a few get away without doing it properly currently is that they've managed to stay under TS radar so far because either they're not high profile enough or because TS in many areas are under-resourced and prioritising other things currently.
There are, sadly, a lot of amateurish/unprofessional and non-compliant operators in bait, plus a few unscrupulous ones too I dare say.
All ‘feed' baits (not hookbaits, which are classed as lures) sold in this country SHOULD have a best before date, nutritional analysis and list of ingredients on the label, as well as the FSA/TS Feed Hygiene Registration number and APHA ABP number.
These are requirements of U.K. animal feed regulations, under which bait is regulated, and any U.K. manufacturer not meeting these requirements is in breach of regulations and risks a visit from Trading Standards.
Only reason a few get away without doing it properly currently is that they've managed to stay under TS radar so far because either they're not high profile enough or because TS in many areas are under-resourced and prioritising other things currently.
There are, sadly, a lot of amateurish/unprofessional and non-compliant operators in bait, plus a few unscrupulous ones too I dare say.
In reply to Post #91
interesting how the low through put companies get away with it
interesting how the low through put companies get away with it
We've always had best before and “do not feed to humans” on the labels lol.
Trouble is a LOt of bait shipped these days is done so without fancy packaging and labels because frankly, a quality label that survives and adheres through the freezing process can be fickle depending on what it's sticking to.
Custom printed bags are nice but again a cost.
If anglers are willing to pay fairly for what is made then more of the industry will left themselves sorted however.
With regards to FSA that's just a registration and virtually none of tge big boys get checked, ABP is generally tge one more regulated and inspected ( within bait ) but as it's mostly ABP3 material it really isn't difficult to adhere too.
I've seen people using fresh brown crab meat in their baits, which requires a much stricter set of rules, and dynamite used to do fresh fish?
Trouble is a LOt of bait shipped these days is done so without fancy packaging and labels because frankly, a quality label that survives and adheres through the freezing process can be fickle depending on what it's sticking to.
Custom printed bags are nice but again a cost.
If anglers are willing to pay fairly for what is made then more of the industry will left themselves sorted however.
With regards to FSA that's just a registration and virtually none of tge big boys get checked, ABP is generally tge one more regulated and inspected ( within bait ) but as it's mostly ABP3 material it really isn't difficult to adhere too.
I've seen people using fresh brown crab meat in their baits, which requires a much stricter set of rules, and dynamite used to do fresh fish?
In reply to Post #93
The cost of packaging and labels is hardly a valid argument for not correctly packing or labelling a product, and wouldn't be accepted by any regulatory authority! It also means there's a very un-level playing field, with some operators ‘investing' in compliance and others treating its avoidance as a way to reduce costs and increase their margins.
FSA/TS registration under the FH Regulations DOES involve annual inspections and checks on both label compliance and nutritional declarations. Authorities may reduce inspection frequency/intensity after regular proof of compliance, but obviously those flying under the radar by not being registered in the first place won't be inspected as part of scheduled audits - until they one day receive an unannounced visit, which could result in prosecution.
Your argument that it costs too much for small bait companies to comply with the Regs, so they don't, is indicative of a pretty irresponsible portion of operators who are taking people for a ride because they can't be bothered and would rather protect their profit.
Would you buy food from a business that thought it acceptable to save cost by not bothering with labelling? What else might they not be bothering with??!!
The cost of packaging and labels is hardly a valid argument for not correctly packing or labelling a product, and wouldn't be accepted by any regulatory authority! It also means there's a very un-level playing field, with some operators ‘investing' in compliance and others treating its avoidance as a way to reduce costs and increase their margins.
FSA/TS registration under the FH Regulations DOES involve annual inspections and checks on both label compliance and nutritional declarations. Authorities may reduce inspection frequency/intensity after regular proof of compliance, but obviously those flying under the radar by not being registered in the first place won't be inspected as part of scheduled audits - until they one day receive an unannounced visit, which could result in prosecution.
Your argument that it costs too much for small bait companies to comply with the Regs, so they don't, is indicative of a pretty irresponsible portion of operators who are taking people for a ride because they can't be bothered and would rather protect their profit.
Would you buy food from a business that thought it acceptable to save cost by not bothering with labelling? What else might they not be bothering with??!!
In reply to Post #94
minus the label information eliminates any chance of traceability that ultimately protects the customer
minus the label information eliminates any chance of traceability that ultimately protects the customer
In reply to Post #95
Absolutely right - traceability is a vital part of labelling.
Absolutely right - traceability is a vital part of labelling.
In reply to Post #94
These posts bring up some interesting issues.
If you buy a 1kg bag of boilies from the freezer section, be it Mainline, Crafty Catcher, Nutrabaits whoever, the boilies will be in a nice plastic bag, complete with full labelling ingredients etc. 2.5 or 5kg could also be in a proper packing bag.
Now order 10kg that the shop might not hold as a stock item and they could well be in a plain unlabelled bag, 'made specially', with or without any labels at all.
Go to a butcher or greengrocer, and chose loose produce, they put it into a plain bag. The greengrocer especially rarely labels it.
Dynamite fish boilies, I remember them, wasn't that an effort to use the fish in place of fresh eggs as the liquid content?
That was available in both shelf and freezer versions. As a shelf life it is going to need properly preserving.
They were then improved with liquid egg in later versions.
We've always had best before and “do not feed to humans” on the labels lol.
Trouble is a LOt of bait shipped these days is done so without fancy packaging and labels because frankly, a quality label that survives and adheres through the freezing process can be fickle depending on what it's sticking to.
Custom printed bags are nice but again a cost.
If anglers are willing to pay fairly for what is made then more of the industry will left themselves sorted however.
With regards to FSA that's just a registration and virtually none of tge big boys get checked, ABP is generally tge one more regulated and inspected ( within bait ) but as it's mostly ABP3 material it really isn't difficult to adhere too.
I've seen people using fresh brown crab meat in their baits, which requires a much stricter set of rules, and dynamite used to do fresh fish?
In reply to Post #93
The cost of packaging and labels is hardly a valid argument for not correctly packing or labelling a product, and wouldn't be accepted by any regulatory authority! It also means there's a very un-level playing field, with some operators ‘investing' in compliance and others treating its avoidance as a way to reduce costs and increase their margins.
FSA/TS registration under the FH Regulations DOES involve annual inspections and checks on both label compliance and nutritional declarations. Authorities may reduce inspection frequency/intensity after regular proof of compliance, but obviously those flying under the radar by not being registered in the first place won't be inspected as part of scheduled audits - until they one day receive an unannounced visit, which could result in prosecution.
Your argument that it costs too much for small bait companies to comply with the Regs, so they don't, is indicative of a pretty irresponsible portion of operators who are taking people for a ride because they can't be bothered and would rather protect their profit.
Would you buy food from a business that thought it acceptable to save cost by not bothering with labelling? What else might they not be bothering with??!!
These posts bring up some interesting issues.
If you buy a 1kg bag of boilies from the freezer section, be it Mainline, Crafty Catcher, Nutrabaits whoever, the boilies will be in a nice plastic bag, complete with full labelling ingredients etc. 2.5 or 5kg could also be in a proper packing bag.
Now order 10kg that the shop might not hold as a stock item and they could well be in a plain unlabelled bag, 'made specially', with or without any labels at all.
Go to a butcher or greengrocer, and chose loose produce, they put it into a plain bag. The greengrocer especially rarely labels it.
Dynamite fish boilies, I remember them, wasn't that an effort to use the fish in place of fresh eggs as the liquid content?
That was available in both shelf and freezer versions. As a shelf life it is going to need properly preserving.
They were then improved with liquid egg in later versions.
We've always had best before and “do not feed to humans” on the labels lol.
Trouble is a LOt of bait shipped these days is done so without fancy packaging and labels because frankly, a quality label that survives and adheres through the freezing process can be fickle depending on what it's sticking to.
Custom printed bags are nice but again a cost.
If anglers are willing to pay fairly for what is made then more of the industry will left themselves sorted however.
With regards to FSA that's just a registration and virtually none of tge big boys get checked, ABP is generally tge one more regulated and inspected ( within bait ) but as it's mostly ABP3 material it really isn't difficult to adhere too.
I've seen people using fresh brown crab meat in their baits, which requires a much stricter set of rules, and dynamite used to do fresh fish?
In reply to Post #93
The cost of packaging and labels is hardly a valid argument for not correctly packing or labelling a product, and wouldn't be accepted by any regulatory authority! It also means there's a very un-level playing field, with some operators ‘investing' in compliance and others treating its avoidance as a way to reduce costs and increase their margins.
FSA/TS registration under the FH Regulations DOES involve annual inspections and checks on both label compliance and nutritional declarations. Authorities may reduce inspection frequency/intensity after regular proof of compliance, but obviously those flying under the radar by not being registered in the first place won't be inspected as part of scheduled audits - until they one day receive an unannounced visit, which could result in prosecution.
Your argument that it costs too much for small bait companies to comply with the Regs, so they don't, is indicative of a pretty irresponsible portion of operators who are taking people for a ride because they can't be bothered and would rather protect their profit.
Would you buy food from a business that thought it acceptable to save cost by not bothering with labelling? What else might they not be bothering with??!!
In reply to Post #97
Regarding Lose products, labels are not required, pre packed however falls into the labelling laws bracket.
Fruit and veg are deemed as low risk
Regarding Lose products, labels are not required, pre packed however falls into the labelling laws bracket.
Fruit and veg are deemed as low risk
In reply to Post #98
The below is slightly jargonistic, but might help some of the smaller producers and came directly from the FSA to me via my link into the them
Commission Notice (2019/C 225/01) provided guidance on the implementation of certain provisions of Regulation (EC) 183/2005, which lays down the requirements for feed hygiene, to clarify the application of animal feed legislation to bait. The notice advised ‘Fishing baits designed to be scattered to attract fish to an area (often known as ground bait) are considered to fall within the definition of feed as covered by Regulation (EC) No 178/2002. Therefore, producers of these ground baits must be considered as feed business operators and be registered in accordance with the Feed Hygiene Regulation. However, fish baits intended to be attached onto a fish hook whose purpose is therefore not to meet the nutritional needs of an animal should not be considered as animal feed.
The FSA is the central competent authority for the animal feed regulations, however, enforcement is carried out by local authorities. Your local Trading Standards Officer should be able to advise you regarding any individual enquiries. Please use the link below which is the link to the .gov website - Find your local Trading Standards office. All you need to do is enter your postcode to find the contact details of your local office.
https://www.tradingstandards.uk/consumers/support-advice
The below is slightly jargonistic, but might help some of the smaller producers and came directly from the FSA to me via my link into the them
Commission Notice (2019/C 225/01) provided guidance on the implementation of certain provisions of Regulation (EC) 183/2005, which lays down the requirements for feed hygiene, to clarify the application of animal feed legislation to bait. The notice advised ‘Fishing baits designed to be scattered to attract fish to an area (often known as ground bait) are considered to fall within the definition of feed as covered by Regulation (EC) No 178/2002. Therefore, producers of these ground baits must be considered as feed business operators and be registered in accordance with the Feed Hygiene Regulation. However, fish baits intended to be attached onto a fish hook whose purpose is therefore not to meet the nutritional needs of an animal should not be considered as animal feed.
The FSA is the central competent authority for the animal feed regulations, however, enforcement is carried out by local authorities. Your local Trading Standards Officer should be able to advise you regarding any individual enquiries. Please use the link below which is the link to the .gov website - Find your local Trading Standards office. All you need to do is enter your postcode to find the contact details of your local office.
https://www.tradingstandards.uk/consumers/support-advice
In reply to Post #99
Very interesting and as all these goo's, cloudy liquids, hydros etc are not attached to the hook they therefore should be labelled appropriately.
So does this apply too all bait companies regardless of size?
Very interesting and as all these goo's, cloudy liquids, hydros etc are not attached to the hook they therefore should be labelled appropriately.
So does this apply too all bait companies regardless of size?
In reply to Post #100
id argue that type of liquids is a form of ground bait to attract fish
id argue that type of liquids is a form of ground bait to attract fish
In reply to Post #101
Agreed, can see small bait rollers claiming there 5kg bags of boilies are hook baits including those bulk orders of 100kg.
Then again I can't see it being enforced as it would be very time consuming for the authorities and courts.
Agreed, can see small bait rollers claiming there 5kg bags of boilies are hook baits including those bulk orders of 100kg.
Then again I can't see it being enforced as it would be very time consuming for the authorities and courts.
In reply to Post #102
they wont get away with that for long mate
they wont get away with that for long mate
In reply to Post #98
You got me looking!
I have Copdock Mill, Gladwells 10minutes down the road, so I quite often pick up pellets from them.
Sometimes I will do a 'pick and mix' of sizes and types, other times I will buy a bag of 'Copdock Mill' pellets.
Loose pick and mix have no 'use by' or best before date, yet the prepacked do. Conceivably they could actually come from the same manufacturers batch, yet loose require no use by, and could potentially be out of date. Extremely unlikely I admit as the use by date on the bag I picked up this week is 2024, with a complete nutritional breakdown, and limited ingredients list.
You got me looking!
I have Copdock Mill, Gladwells 10minutes down the road, so I quite often pick up pellets from them.
Sometimes I will do a 'pick and mix' of sizes and types, other times I will buy a bag of 'Copdock Mill' pellets.
Loose pick and mix have no 'use by' or best before date, yet the prepacked do. Conceivably they could actually come from the same manufacturers batch, yet loose require no use by, and could potentially be out of date. Extremely unlikely I admit as the use by date on the bag I picked up this week is 2024, with a complete nutritional breakdown, and limited ingredients list.
In reply to Post #104
exactly mate
each whole bulk bag will have all the correct label information on them. This benefits the buyer from their supplier and protects them against inferior products (ie out of date)
If lose, as your pick n mix suggests, the bags are simply decanted into a receptacle, but what should happen is traceability records per decanted bag should be kept by the supplier, therefore they and you can "trace" back if there's an issue back to said producer.
i suspect 9 out of 10 dont keep said records in this instance
exactly mate
each whole bulk bag will have all the correct label information on them. This benefits the buyer from their supplier and protects them against inferior products (ie out of date)
If lose, as your pick n mix suggests, the bags are simply decanted into a receptacle, but what should happen is traceability records per decanted bag should be kept by the supplier, therefore they and you can "trace" back if there's an issue back to said producer.
i suspect 9 out of 10 dont keep said records in this instance