Oh what a fickle bunch we are (Not a dig at anyone personally and not at the Pioneer specifically) .... but it is interesting that a £640 package for a bivvy and wrap is suddenly considered a bargain .... considering the outcry a £500+ bivvy caused in the not too distant past ... especially when not a UK build that so many people stamped their feet about ....
Fair play to Aqua on this ... they have nailed the marketing and sales strategy. .... Price very high to begin and make a killing on nostalgia ... then as the demand starts to wain, drop price to a still high price, but it now looks a bargain and justify this by promising a new model .... where they will of course repeat the process .... Genius
Fair play to Aqua on this ... they have nailed the marketing and sales strategy. .... Price very high to begin and make a killing on nostalgia ... then as the demand starts to wain, drop price to a still high price, but it now looks a bargain and justify this by promising a new model .... where they will of course repeat the process .... Genius
In reply to Post #61
It's nothing new under the sun. One of the few exceptions I can think of that keeps the prices the same are Apple.
These are very good. One of the best bits of kit I've got 👍
It's nothing new under the sun. One of the few exceptions I can think of that keeps the prices the same are Apple.
These are very good. One of the best bits of kit I've got 👍
Apart from the original pio which is far better 
In reply to Post #63
.... and the original Aqua MK2 Armo (imo, of course
)
.... and the original Aqua MK2 Armo (imo, of course
)
In reply to Post #61
Great Post .I nearly bought one of these when first came out,thanks to Wayne (blankosaurusrex)sending me photos i went with the tempest v2 bivvy.Im so glad I did,goes up quicker and more useable room.The seams and poles are still perfect on my v2 unlike 2 guys I knows pioneers aren't.I can't wait see this new revolutionary material and prices 
Great Post
.I nearly bought one of these when first came out,thanks to Wayne (blankosaurusrex)sending me photos i went with the tempest v2 bivvy.Im so glad I did,goes up quicker and more useable room.The seams and poles are still perfect on my v2 unlike 2 guys I knows pioneers aren't.I can't wait see this new revolutionary material and prices
In reply to Post #65
Ultimately its your money so get what you like, I personally fancy a change and at the price point im happy to bite and have done so
ill add once again that there is nothing wrong with any of my other bivvys and I LOVE The tempest its such a brilliant design and im amazed aqua didn't bring it out initially however strategically it made much more sense to put it in the Trakker stable and sell loads more at a lower price point and then expand hence the air, brolly etc.... its been a winner and has changed bivvys and pretty much eradicated traditional brolly sales I imagine
With regards the bad mouthing of the product I had a detailed chat with lewis at JR's who is a straight talking guy and I probed him about them he said he gets far more returns from other brands, the boys at JR's are a straight taking bunch there and so that was good enough for me
Out of interest and to emphasise this I had issues originally with the front poles on my XL one of them was bent pole 2 I think and I had to get replacements from trakker which was a nightmare and resulted in me sending it in for inspection that they eventually replaced the whole thing (My point being there will always be the odd case here or there)
With regards to relaunching the same product with a slight tweak well that has happened for as long as I've been fishing its the world we live in hence the v1, the v2, the 100, the 150 all the same with slight tweaks and a chance to resell it all over
Reality is that manufacturers don't want you buying one bivvy every 10 years thats just not a good business model - that applies to luggage and beds as well which we've all seen have the slightest tweak or different shade of green before its pushed out as the next best thing by the marketing gurus and again much like the apple iPhone 7, 8, 9 etc etc etc ...... resells all over again
Ultimately its your money so get what you like, I personally fancy a change and at the price point im happy to bite and have done so
ill add once again that there is nothing wrong with any of my other bivvys and I LOVE The tempest its such a brilliant design and im amazed aqua didn't bring it out initially however strategically it made much more sense to put it in the Trakker stable and sell loads more at a lower price point and then expand hence the air, brolly etc.... its been a winner and has changed bivvys and pretty much eradicated traditional brolly sales I imagine
With regards the bad mouthing of the product I had a detailed chat with lewis at JR's who is a straight talking guy and I probed him about them he said he gets far more returns from other brands, the boys at JR's are a straight taking bunch there and so that was good enough for me
Out of interest and to emphasise this I had issues originally with the front poles on my XL one of them was bent pole 2 I think and I had to get replacements from trakker which was a nightmare and resulted in me sending it in for inspection that they eventually replaced the whole thing (My point being there will always be the odd case here or there)
With regards to relaunching the same product with a slight tweak well that has happened for as long as I've been fishing its the world we live in hence the v1, the v2, the 100, the 150 all the same with slight tweaks and a chance to resell it all over
Reality is that manufacturers don't want you buying one bivvy every 10 years thats just not a good business model - that applies to luggage and beds as well which we've all seen have the slightest tweak or different shade of green before its pushed out as the next best thing by the marketing gurus and again much like the apple iPhone 7, 8, 9 etc etc etc ...... resells all over again
as far as prices go my Original Pioneer was from memory £399 plus £9.99 for the clear window plus £99.99 for the top hat /scull cap as its called now AND the storm poles were extra £49.99 AND the groundsheet was extra £49.99 and that was YEARS AGO !!!total cost £608.96p in 2008
and I bought the extended winter wrap that was another £199.99 so my total was £808.95
but I was in a high paid job and didnt care in those days not like now a penniless pensioner
In reply to Post #67
Good memory that Gerry below is a link to the original and a catalogue with the original prices
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/4022110/product-catalogue-autumn-winter-aqua-products
Looking at it and using my maths that lot would have set you back £720 for what is effectively the equivalent 100 version back then if you had the wrap and all extras
I had the ultralite from back then which certainly was anything other than ultra lite!!!! that should of been what they called the Aqualite which still is too this day one of my favourites
Good memory that Gerry below is a link to the original and a catalogue with the original prices
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/read/4022110/product-catalogue-autumn-winter-aqua-products
Looking at it and using my maths that lot would have set you back £720 for what is effectively the equivalent 100 version back then if you had the wrap and all extras
I had the ultralite from back then which certainly was anything other than ultra lite!!!! that should of been what they called the Aqualite which still is too this day one of my favourites
In reply to Post #68
That takes me back, I still have my M3 from 2009, never use it though but no way am I ever getting rid of it, will use it when my Tempest fall to bits
That takes me back, I still have my M3 from 2009, never use it though but no way am I ever getting rid of it, will use it when my Tempest fall to bits
In reply to Post #68
yes but I wasnt to far out lol
looking at that catalogue ( I did have a copy on my old pc) I realise now the groundsheet was incl and not extra my memory let me down
still a lotta wonga back then
yes but I wasnt to far out lol
looking at that catalogue ( I did have a copy on my old pc) I realise now the groundsheet was incl and not extra my memory let me down
still a lotta wonga back then
still in use 12 years or more maybe
my kid nicked it for himself on a 3 day trip during the summer this year. he left me with the missus in the 2 man Cayman.
Want Bivvy tartiness? Those are Dymag full carbon storm poles. Plus I hand-made the groundsheet myself much lighter, better shaped, and tougher than the Original. Those two changes bring the weight right down too.
my kid nicked it for himself on a 3 day trip during the summer this year. he left me with the missus in the 2 man Cayman.
Want Bivvy tartiness? Those are Dymag full carbon storm poles. Plus I hand-made the groundsheet myself much lighter, better shaped, and tougher than the Original. Those two changes bring the weight right down too.
In reply to Post #71
Yeah but that hideous pod negates anything else in that picture I'm afraid.
Ps, even the rods don't match.
Yeah but that hideous pod negates anything else in that picture I'm afraid.
Ps, even the rods don't match.
In reply to Post #72
Hes 12 lol
Hes 12 lol
In reply to Post #73
Exactly, his kit should be better than yours.
Exactly, his kit should be better than yours.
In reply to Post #74
His bivvy is
And that's my bloody wideboy bed and bag.
His bivvy is
And that's my bloody wideboy bed and bag.