In reply to Post #46
I had long suspected that it might be the enzymes themselves that were attractive but I heard/read a comment which disputed this as the actual enzyme molecules are too big to be detected by the carps receptors. The accuracy of that statement is beyond my knowledge but the guy who said it Dean Towey is someone who's ideas on bait I generally go along with.
I certainly agree with your comment about active baits, but I wish someone could give an equally confident response to a very similar question, can the carps receptors detect peptides? The reason I ask this is that I really don't think that there are many free AAs in most of our baits, at least when they first come out of the freezer.
I had long suspected that it might be the enzymes themselves that were attractive but I heard/read a comment which disputed this as the actual enzyme molecules are too big to be detected by the carps receptors. The accuracy of that statement is beyond my knowledge but the guy who said it Dean Towey is someone who's ideas on bait I generally go along with.
I certainly agree with your comment about active baits, but I wish someone could give an equally confident response to a very similar question, can the carps receptors detect peptides? The reason I ask this is that I really don't think that there are many free AAs in most of our baits, at least when they first come out of the freezer.
In reply to Post #47
And furthermore Bob (and this may be a dumb question of my part), how does this (enzymatic) reaction occur? Does it also form/take place underwater?
Because I think it may also be the case that situations are different when taking out a bait from the freezer, letting it thaw and sweat and then fish with it (when the enzymes may be working for us), while on the other hand (and I fish like this) taking baits from the freezer and straight into the lake (get them as fresh as possible to the fish).
Would that also change things?
And furthermore Bob (and this may be a dumb question of my part), how does this (enzymatic) reaction occur? Does it also form/take place underwater?
Because I think it may also be the case that situations are different when taking out a bait from the freezer, letting it thaw and sweat and then fish with it (when the enzymes may be working for us), while on the other hand (and I fish like this) taking baits from the freezer and straight into the lake (get them as fresh as possible to the fish).
Would that also change things?
In reply to Post #48
Home Brewers use amylase to release the sugar from grains so yes the reaction continues in water.
Home Brewers use amylase to release the sugar from grains so yes the reaction continues in water.
In reply to Post #49
Great info, thanks!
Great info, thanks!
In reply to Post #47
I was of the same opinion about enzymes being attractive but have now changed thoughts to the bi-product of enzymatic reaction in terms of aromatic compounds that have been achieved from the fermentation of the reaction whether that be sugars from amylase or ffaa or peptides. The tricky bit for me is working out which one of these compounds gives the best results.
As for brewers, that's a great point. I've done a birdfood using malted barley at 10% and the inherent amylase will hydrolyse some of the starches, especially if using micronised maize at 20%. The resulting maltose is rapidly fermentable and if mixed with a bit of chocolate flavour seemed successful in winter.
I was of the same opinion about enzymes being attractive but have now changed thoughts to the bi-product of enzymatic reaction in terms of aromatic compounds that have been achieved from the fermentation of the reaction whether that be sugars from amylase or ffaa or peptides. The tricky bit for me is working out which one of these compounds gives the best results.
As for brewers, that's a great point. I've done a birdfood using malted barley at 10% and the inherent amylase will hydrolyse some of the starches, especially if using micronised maize at 20%. The resulting maltose is rapidly fermentable and if mixed with a bit of chocolate flavour seemed successful in winter.
In reply to Post #51
Oh just give me a bag of tutties I'm joking
sorry I'm noddy, I'm trying to understand this but mozzi,s gone quiet
Oh just give me a bag of tutties I'm joking
sorry I'm noddy, I'm trying to understand this but mozzi,s gone quiet
In reply to Post #51
Maize makes baits very very soft when submerged, something I think helps at any time of year including winter, malt barley is an interesting one, take it you ground it down yourself? Tge flour can be silly money
Maize makes baits very very soft when submerged, something I think helps at any time of year including winter, malt barley is an interesting one, take it you ground it down yourself? Tge flour can be silly money
In reply to Post #53
Yep ground it myself, as you say diastatic malt powder is a bit pricey. Inclusion rate need to be low due to the inherent overpowering smell/taste...unless it's combined with chocolate flavour
Yep ground it myself, as you say diastatic malt powder is a bit pricey. Inclusion rate need to be low due to the inherent overpowering smell/taste...unless it's combined with chocolate flavour
In reply to Post #53
Funny, I include maize for its hardening properties and structure.
Funny, I include maize for its hardening properties and structure.
In reply to Post #51
Worth nothing that the effectiveness of the amylase in breaking down the starches is strongly linked to temperature & time.
Very interesting reading in to what you have found...can understand how the maize is helping.
Were you using this bait fresh or freezing after production and using at a later date?
Worth nothing that the effectiveness of the amylase in breaking down the starches is strongly linked to temperature & time.
Very interesting reading in to what you have found...can understand how the maize is helping.
Were you using this bait fresh or freezing after production and using at a later date?
In reply to Post #56
Usually I'll make it and leave in a warm place for it to continue breaking down starches and begin to ferment. Once it's ripe I'll either use or freeze it at the correct stage, that sticky slightly boozy smell stage. If I'm making a proper amylase bait I use bacterial amylase and one called alcotec. They both work at different temps so gets a good time frame to work once in boiling water.
Usually I'll make it and leave in a warm place for it to continue breaking down starches and begin to ferment. Once it's ripe I'll either use or freeze it at the correct stage, that sticky slightly boozy smell stage. If I'm making a proper amylase bait I use bacterial amylase and one called alcotec. They both work at different temps so gets a good time frame to work once in boiling water.
In reply to Post #55
I mean once submerged. It breaks down quicker than other filler ingredients to
I mean once submerged. It breaks down quicker than other filler ingredients to
In reply to Post #58
Ah, yes okay!
Ah, yes okay!
I am testing Bob's setup; making them sweat on a bag and see if there is a different reaction in baits with cell liquid and without.
Now, after 3 nights in a double zip lock bag nothing to see yet. But I suspect the zip lock bags aren't fully airtight. Does anyone know if the bags must contain air/oxigen or absolutely no oxigen for a reaction to follow? Thinking I'm doing it wrong here
Now, after 3 nights in a double zip lock bag nothing to see yet. But I suspect the zip lock bags aren't fully airtight. Does anyone know if the bags must contain air/oxigen or absolutely no oxigen for a reaction to follow? Thinking I'm doing it wrong here
In reply to Post #60
The bags are air tight and will create anaerobic conditions.
Bit on enzymes and bacteria here;
Bacteria produce a variety of enzymes that allow for complex chemistry to occur. Bacteria are actually the factories that produce enzymes. When the right bacteria are present, in the right quantities, and under the right conditions, they produce enzymes much more economically than people can manufacture them
May be better covering them in a little water? I would check the texture for softening though
The more I think about it I think the activators are mainly CSL based and a flavour addition and then an enzyme.
The bags are air tight and will create anaerobic conditions.
Bit on enzymes and bacteria here;
Bacteria produce a variety of enzymes that allow for complex chemistry to occur. Bacteria are actually the factories that produce enzymes. When the right bacteria are present, in the right quantities, and under the right conditions, they produce enzymes much more economically than people can manufacture them
May be better covering them in a little water? I would check the texture for softening though
The more I think about it I think the activators are mainly CSL based and a flavour addition and then an enzyme.