In reply to Post #30
Ultimately if they had intelligence or learning as many believe they would only get caught once on a little round ball.
However I'm not sure that they only have a three second memory as has been published.
Ultimately if they had intelligence or learning as many believe they would only get caught once on a little round ball.
However I'm not sure that they only have a three second memory as has been published.
In reply to Post #31
Really, and if that little round ball is their only major food source as it is in many Carp fisheries?
Really, and if that little round ball is their only major food source as it is in many Carp fisheries?
In reply to Post #29
Another theory for carp that don't get caught much was the way they feed, it wasn't suggested that they deliberately feed in such a way so as not to get caught, it was just the way they fed.
for example the way did, or did not "up ending" while eating.
I'm not saying I subscribe to this theory, just saying there's so many about.
Another theory for carp that don't get caught much was the way they feed, it wasn't suggested that they deliberately feed in such a way so as not to get caught, it was just the way they fed.
for example the way did, or did not "up ending" while eating.
I'm not saying I subscribe to this theory, just saying there's so many about.
In reply to Post #31
So what did they eat before the conception of boilies.?
So what did they eat before the conception of boilies.?
In reply to Post #33
Fish that used to get caught 4 or 5 times a year are often the ones that go on the missing list for 4 years only to turn up again, and rarely have they lost weight. So their habits or way they eat can change, or perhaps mouth damage makes them less likely to be hooked? It's often the fish with the underslung mouths that get caught the least often, I think because our rigs just aren't efficient for the way they feed.
Fish that used to get caught 4 or 5 times a year are often the ones that go on the missing list for 4 years only to turn up again, and rarely have they lost weight. So their habits or way they eat can change, or perhaps mouth damage makes them less likely to be hooked? It's often the fish with the underslung mouths that get caught the least often, I think because our rigs just aren't efficient for the way they feed.
In reply to Post #24
there are are loads of scientific paper published that carp learn by association including some that show they are able to distinguish between different type of nutrients in a food depending on the water temperature they were being kept in (Yamamoto & Shima 1991). the same experiment used different colored foods to ensure that they were not associating the food color with the nutrients in the food. it showed they preferred a diet of carbs & fats over protien at lower temperatures.
go onto sciencedirect.com & search for "common carp" - you will be amazed by some of the research that has been performed on carp that hasn't made it into carp fishing yet. in fact most of it hasn't made it into carp fishing as I don't think that there are that many people looking - LOL
brain function, identifying stress via gene reaction, benefits of probiotic diets, detrimental effects of too much salt, sugar & hyperglycemia, night vision etc there's years & years of relevant stuff that never gets mentioned in carp literature & most anglers call bollox because it didn't come from a big name or wasn't written about by the likes of Wilton or Maddocks (cough - John Baker).
most of the "science" spouted in carp fishing is based on echo chambers & ill-informed opinions, usually based on how we as humans sense & react to things which is ridiculous considering how biologically different we are to them.
the likes of hutchy & ken t were years ahead of everyone else when it came to applying science to carp fishing & for some reason their approach was lost as convenience took over & people didn't need to look into it anymore.
using your logic about not repeatedly eating little round balls because they get caught on them assumes that intelligence means an animal will always do what is best for it. we have a huge tobacco industry that proves that to be wrong.
as mentioned in an earlier post, the concept of achieving comfort, feeling pleasure & 'liking' things is a very basic behavior that has aided evolution of life on earth for billions of years.
carp eat baits because they like the look, taste or smell of them. getting caught is a minor inconvenience. fish go uncaught because anglers don't present baits & rigs that they like enough to eat without caution.
there are are loads of scientific paper published that carp learn by association including some that show they are able to distinguish between different type of nutrients in a food depending on the water temperature they were being kept in (Yamamoto & Shima 1991). the same experiment used different colored foods to ensure that they were not associating the food color with the nutrients in the food. it showed they preferred a diet of carbs & fats over protien at lower temperatures.
go onto sciencedirect.com & search for "common carp" - you will be amazed by some of the research that has been performed on carp that hasn't made it into carp fishing yet. in fact most of it hasn't made it into carp fishing as I don't think that there are that many people looking - LOL
brain function, identifying stress via gene reaction, benefits of probiotic diets, detrimental effects of too much salt, sugar & hyperglycemia, night vision etc there's years & years of relevant stuff that never gets mentioned in carp literature & most anglers call bollox because it didn't come from a big name or wasn't written about by the likes of Wilton or Maddocks (cough - John Baker).
most of the "science" spouted in carp fishing is based on echo chambers & ill-informed opinions, usually based on how we as humans sense & react to things which is ridiculous considering how biologically different we are to them.
the likes of hutchy & ken t were years ahead of everyone else when it came to applying science to carp fishing & for some reason their approach was lost as convenience took over & people didn't need to look into it anymore.
using your logic about not repeatedly eating little round balls because they get caught on them assumes that intelligence means an animal will always do what is best for it. we have a huge tobacco industry that proves that to be wrong.
as mentioned in an earlier post, the concept of achieving comfort, feeling pleasure & 'liking' things is a very basic behavior that has aided evolution of life on earth for billions of years.
carp eat baits because they like the look, taste or smell of them. getting caught is a minor inconvenience. fish go uncaught because anglers don't present baits & rigs that they like enough to eat without caution.
In reply to Post #36
Thanks for your very detailed response , I'll definitely look at the website you mention.
I guess what I am getting at is that I feel we give the carp far too much credit in the intelligence stakes.
Yes you are right you cannot compare Carp to humans.
Thanks for your very detailed response , I'll definitely look at the website you mention.
I guess what I am getting at is that I feel we give the carp far too much credit in the intelligence stakes.
Yes you are right you cannot compare Carp to humans.
Surely the only way to work this out it by trial.
A runsy type water with 3 rods tight on the same spot. Identical rigs and bait. No rig tube if allowed. One with clear line one with green/brown line the other with yellow.
Then see the results over 3/4 days. Then again on a similar venue.
It still won't mean it's going to be the same on all venues and also the difference between day and night.
A runsy type water with 3 rods tight on the same spot. Identical rigs and bait. No rig tube if allowed. One with clear line one with green/brown line the other with yellow.
Then see the results over 3/4 days. Then again on a similar venue.
It still won't mean it's going to be the same on all venues and also the difference between day and night.
In reply to Post #35
Years ago match fishing at castle Ashby in the summer floaters allowed. First thing we realised was some days they would only take pink or white marshmallows. Second season so after a 6 months lay off from floaters exactly the same. But after a few weeks they would not touch a full marshmallow had to be a half. Third year they would not touch a full marshmallow at all other than odd fish.
That says to me they had not only remembered it but did so over the the winter period of five to six on even 7 months
This was noted by all the anglers that regularly fished the matches.
Years ago match fishing at castle Ashby in the summer floaters allowed. First thing we realised was some days they would only take pink or white marshmallows. Second season so after a 6 months lay off from floaters exactly the same. But after a few weeks they would not touch a full marshmallow had to be a half. Third year they would not touch a full marshmallow at all other than odd fish.
That says to me they had not only remembered it but did so over the the winter period of five to six on even 7 months
This was noted by all the anglers that regularly fished the matches.
In reply to Post #39
I politely disagree. I don't think carp are that clever or have very good memories.
My guess is what you and the others experienced was an idea that became confirmation bias.
I politely disagree. I don't think carp are that clever or have very good memories.
My guess is what you and the others experienced was an idea that became confirmation bias.
In reply to Post #5
As it approached the line it slowed and stopped before turning and going back the way it had come ! It definitely saw the line and didn't want to swim through it .
Had similar myself, quite a while, ago now, fishing with my lines over a marginal weedbed, carp comes swimming down, stopped and held for a couple of seconds then turned and went and sat in a weedbed for the rest of the day. They know what's going off. Now whether it's the line or light refraction from the sun transmitting through the line I'm not sure but at certain times they can see it.
Posted a while ago about fluorocarbon and a bloke in Florida was saying it attracted fish as it flashed in the water as the light transmitted through it, how true that is I'm not sure but it's food for thought
Long time since I read it, there a scientific paper on the net about carp eyesight, I think they can see in blue, red, green and in black light, UV, which makes you wonder. I used to put pop ups under UV light to see what they look like, think in once posted some pictures on here of the different colours
I have had a preference from brown lines for years and that came from some match friends who were fishing for roach which have very good eyesight. They used a brown mono line from Maver and were telling me that bites were far more frequent to clear and green
As it approached the line it slowed and stopped before turning and going back the way it had come ! It definitely saw the line and didn't want to swim through it .
Had similar myself, quite a while, ago now, fishing with my lines over a marginal weedbed, carp comes swimming down, stopped and held for a couple of seconds then turned and went and sat in a weedbed for the rest of the day. They know what's going off. Now whether it's the line or light refraction from the sun transmitting through the line I'm not sure but at certain times they can see it.
Posted a while ago about fluorocarbon and a bloke in Florida was saying it attracted fish as it flashed in the water as the light transmitted through it, how true that is I'm not sure but it's food for thought
Long time since I read it, there a scientific paper on the net about carp eyesight, I think they can see in blue, red, green and in black light, UV, which makes you wonder. I used to put pop ups under UV light to see what they look like, think in once posted some pictures on here of the different colours
I have had a preference from brown lines for years and that came from some match friends who were fishing for roach which have very good eyesight. They used a brown mono line from Maver and were telling me that bites were far more frequent to clear and green