In reply to Post #30
AMEN to that
AMEN to that
In reply to Post #31
Also, you can add that there is "lethal control" under license
Also, you can add that there is "lethal control" under license
In reply to Post #32
Tbf there has always been lethal control, like all other animals can you put them out of their misery if you happened to stumble across one that was so far gone you thought it had zero chance of surviving
Tbf there has always been lethal control, like all other animals can you put them out of their misery if you happened to stumble across one that was so far gone you thought it had zero chance of surviving
In reply to Post #28
The salmon populations wont recover by removing otters. Completely separate drivers sending salmon to the brink, which highlights the main issue really.
The salmon populations wont recover by removing otters. Completely separate drivers sending salmon to the brink, which highlights the main issue really.
In reply to Post #33
As far as im aware, NO one has applied to NE for lethal control as yet
As far as im aware, NO one has applied to NE for lethal control as yet
In reply to Post #31
Is there any chance of a river fishery meeting the criteria for those controls to be implemented?
While I think these petitions have no chance of success, I do feel for them.
I would like to know how much of the angling budget is spent on stocking otter fodder into the rivers, and without the stockings would barbel become an endangered species themselves?
Is there any chance of a river fishery meeting the criteria for those controls to be implemented?
While I think these petitions have no chance of success, I do feel for them.
I would like to know how much of the angling budget is spent on stocking otter fodder into the rivers, and without the stockings would barbel become an endangered species themselves?
In reply to Post #21
If this were a serious argument about recovering fish stocks, the focus should be on lobbying for habitat restoration and reducing pollution of our rivers. That is a bigger issue!! As a community we just can't get behind what we can't see.
The otter predation argument is a classic case of shifting baseline syndrome. Angling boomed in their absence, and now we argue for the status quo (our already degraded systems) without the otter. Our perception of a functioning ecosystem needs re-callibrating. We are essentially in an ecological emergency, the answer is in the mass rewilding of the river systems. As a community we need to embrace that change and respect nature more.
With respect to lakes or commercial waters ok see this as a different argument. I think a risk based solution, through grants to minimise risk to businesses needs looking at. Funds for fencing and stocking etc. I don't think carp should err take residence over protected wildlife as sad as that is to say.
If this were a serious argument about recovering fish stocks, the focus should be on lobbying for habitat restoration and reducing pollution of our rivers. That is a bigger issue!! As a community we just can't get behind what we can't see.
The otter predation argument is a classic case of shifting baseline syndrome. Angling boomed in their absence, and now we argue for the status quo (our already degraded systems) without the otter. Our perception of a functioning ecosystem needs re-callibrating. We are essentially in an ecological emergency, the answer is in the mass rewilding of the river systems. As a community we need to embrace that change and respect nature more.
With respect to lakes or commercial waters ok see this as a different argument. I think a risk based solution, through grants to minimise risk to businesses needs looking at. Funds for fencing and stocking etc. I don't think carp should err take residence over protected wildlife as sad as that is to say.
In reply to Post #36
Very good questions mate. unsure on full criteria, but id suspect no chance of river keepers be able to have a successful application
yeap, im fully on record of saying its woeful for rivers, canals and un protected waters.
you'll be able to find out the monies spent on stocking via the EA
Very good questions mate. unsure on full criteria, but id suspect no chance of river keepers be able to have a successful application
yeap, im fully on record of saying its woeful for rivers, canals and un protected waters.
you'll be able to find out the monies spent on stocking via the EA
In reply to Post #37
Grants for fencing exist via EA and AT
with all the bloody mooning anglers do and the money they waste of the latest crappy bit of tackle, if grants cant be obtained, spend some of your own money to protect what you say you love so dearly...I DID! OR HAD TOO...and so did my members
they all happy to spend thousands on pointless tackle, but cry like babies when a syndicate puts the price up for fencing
Grants for fencing exist via EA and AT
with all the bloody mooning anglers do and the money they waste of the latest crappy bit of tackle, if grants cant be obtained, spend some of your own money to protect what you say you love so dearly...I DID! OR HAD TOO...and so did my members
they all happy to spend thousands on pointless tackle, but cry like babies when a syndicate puts the price up for fencing
In reply to Post #39
Around 2012 it became blatantly obvious around my way you either “Fence it or forget it” it really was that simple.
The ones that did have flourished the ones that did not ended up having to fence and then re-stock from scratch!
The writing is on the wall as regards what the futures going to look like to me-
~ Private Syndicate waters fenced and thriving.
~ Fenced Commercial Carp & Coarse waters thriving.
~ Trout Stillwater's that constantly stock on a very regular basis thriving.
~ Sea fishing- thriving.
The rest “FUBAR!”
Around 2012 it became blatantly obvious around my way you either “Fence it or forget it” it really was that simple.
The ones that did have flourished the ones that did not ended up having to fence and then re-stock from scratch!
The writing is on the wall as regards what the futures going to look like to me-
~ Private Syndicate waters fenced and thriving.
~ Fenced Commercial Carp & Coarse waters thriving.
~ Trout Stillwater's that constantly stock on a very regular basis thriving.
~ Sea fishing- thriving.
The rest “FUBAR!”
In reply to Post #37
The problem is the otter situation was dropped into the angling community like a bomb, from those who didnt particularly care of the consequences, now those rivers I had mentioned earlier went from sustainable to not in a very short space of time relatively speaking. Now you cant blame people for essentially thinking they've had a pretty raw deal, and want to fight back.
It's very easy to blame the environment, but those same environments happily sustained barbel
The problem is the otter situation was dropped into the angling community like a bomb, from those who didnt particularly care of the consequences, now those rivers I had mentioned earlier went from sustainable to not in a very short space of time relatively speaking. Now you cant blame people for essentially thinking they've had a pretty raw deal, and want to fight back.
It's very easy to blame the environment, but those same environments happily sustained barbel
In reply to Post #41
Sorry mate, the otter issues wasn't "Dropped" into angling at all....
it was ignored, not believed, few of us knew full well what was going to happen.
Even today, alot of lake owners, clubs etc still refuse to do anything to protect their stock, as they "dont" think it will happen to them...blind or ignorance? the latter me thinks.
Sorry mate, the otter issues wasn't "Dropped" into angling at all....
it was ignored, not believed, few of us knew full well what was going to happen.
Even today, alot of lake owners, clubs etc still refuse to do anything to protect their stock, as they "dont" think it will happen to them...blind or ignorance? the latter me thinks.
In reply to Post #42
The future for our rivers and canals is particularly bleak.
I live 5 minutes from the Ivel which sadly in 2015 saw the lady and pretty much all the double figure barbel killed in 3 months its was a akin to a fox in a hen coop. I'm sure old Dick Walker is looking down with great sadness on a river he fished much when he lived in the town.
For the first time going back in 2018 they cancelled the annual match which they'd held for 50 years.
Sadly the days of large barbel are dwindling year on year as otter numbers increase, even the chub are starting to thin out and on one stretch once abundant of perch over 3lb it's a shadow of itself.
The only safe venues will be those that are fenced.
The future for our rivers and canals is particularly bleak.
I live 5 minutes from the Ivel which sadly in 2015 saw the lady and pretty much all the double figure barbel killed in 3 months its was a akin to a fox in a hen coop. I'm sure old Dick Walker is looking down with great sadness on a river he fished much when he lived in the town.
For the first time going back in 2018 they cancelled the annual match which they'd held for 50 years.
Sadly the days of large barbel are dwindling year on year as otter numbers increase, even the chub are starting to thin out and on one stretch once abundant of perch over 3lb it's a shadow of itself.
The only safe venues will be those that are fenced.
I've got a single ,placed Beaver in the adjacent river..
The amount of damage this creature has done already beggars belief..if and when they go on the protected list,the fun and games will begin again,just like the otter debacle,only...possibly worse you see,dams cannot be deconstructed,if they get put on the endangered list or whatever..dams cause rivers to back up and spread,...just think about it..!!
Again,like I did years ago, about the otter i'm alerting others because the Beaver rewinding programme....errr,illegal, accidentally let go ,lol,could make the otter situation pale into insignificant wisps of air..
Not long ago,I caught two prominent rewilders,one of which known to me already from my lutra collation data...on private land sussing out release sites..
I caught them red-handed..!!
The amount of damage this creature has done already beggars belief..if and when they go on the protected list,the fun and games will begin again,just like the otter debacle,only...possibly worse you see,dams cannot be deconstructed,if they get put on the endangered list or whatever..dams cause rivers to back up and spread,...just think about it..!!
Again,like I did years ago, about the otter i'm alerting others because the Beaver rewinding programme....errr,illegal, accidentally let go ,lol,could make the otter situation pale into insignificant wisps of air..
Not long ago,I caught two prominent rewilders,one of which known to me already from my lutra collation data...on private land sussing out release sites..
I caught them red-handed..!!
In reply to Post #42
It was dropped in a sense of the angling clubs only found out once dead fish started appearing, it was only then once the EA was contacted that things started coming out, and as no one had experience of otters and what they can do, angling as a whole were slow off the mark.
Moving forward, lakes will be pretty safe, as long as they have a fence, or get lucky, rivers probably wont be so lucky.
It was dropped in a sense of the angling clubs only found out once dead fish started appearing, it was only then once the EA was contacted that things started coming out, and as no one had experience of otters and what they can do, angling as a whole were slow off the mark.
Moving forward, lakes will be pretty safe, as long as they have a fence, or get lucky, rivers probably wont be so lucky.