In reply to Post #15
The botulism comment is nonsense in the context that it was originally made in on this thread.
The botulism comment is nonsense in the context that it was originally made in on this thread.
In reply to Post #16
Would you care to elaborate on how it is nonsense and how you understood the context of the comment ? It was a polite heads-up highlighting the potential danger of storing garlic in oil. Now Mark hadn't actually advised anyone do such a thing, but the " any liquid " bit could easily have been perceived to be just that. He acknowledged this and thanked me for pointing it out. Have. a good day sir.
Would you care to elaborate on how it is nonsense and how you understood the context of the comment ? It was a polite heads-up highlighting the potential danger of storing garlic in oil. Now Mark hadn't actually advised anyone do such a thing, but the " any liquid " bit could easily have been perceived to be just that. He acknowledged this and thanked me for pointing it out. Have. a good day sir.
In reply to Post #17
There is little risk in infusing garlic into oil. No more then doing any oil infusions with herbs and spices. This has been done for thousands of years
The fact that spores are pretty much on all fruit and veg we eat, yet there are very little outbreaks shows how remote the chances are.
If in doubt acidification wouldn't be the way... heat treatment is a much more robust control, Heat the infused oil to around 140oC and it will be free of everything by the time its cooled.
There is little risk in infusing garlic into oil. No more then doing any oil infusions with herbs and spices. This has been done for thousands of years
The fact that spores are pretty much on all fruit and veg we eat, yet there are very little outbreaks shows how remote the chances are.
If in doubt acidification wouldn't be the way... heat treatment is a much more robust control, Heat the infused oil to around 140oC and it will be free of everything by the time its cooled.
In reply to Post #17
You can buy garlic in oil? And I've been keeping garlic cloves in oil for my own cooking for years. Not sure how that differs?
You can buy garlic in oil? And I've been keeping garlic cloves in oil for my own cooking for years. Not sure how that differs?
In reply to Post #15
It wasn't a mistake Mark ( ok, maybe just that any liquid bit hehe ) . And please don't think for a second that I am in any way attempting to troll you, or in any way connected to anyone that has. I assure you that's not the case. You do your utmost to help everyone on here and long may it continue. I'd still be gunning out sausages by hand if it wasn't for you. Oh, and I love my Azatom radio, thanks for suggesting that as well ðŸ˜
Ok, botulism. Maybe I shouldn't have brought that up. The fact is though that it can happen. It's not going to happen using liquids such as hydros or preserved liquids which are the ones you had in mind. To summarise, botulism can occur in oil as it's a perfect, anaerobic, low acidity environment. With hydros, it can't, as it's a highly acidic and quite often salty environment. The water content here is irrelevant as it's the acidity that inhibits the bacteria responsible for botulism. I've got home fermented pickles at home that look like vegetables in water. But it's not water , its an acidic brine that preserves. I eat them all the time and I've never been ill. As for people getting their information from Google, it's just what people do nowadays.
Here's hoping everyone is happy now ðŸ˜
It wasn't a mistake Mark ( ok, maybe just that any liquid bit hehe ) . And please don't think for a second that I am in any way attempting to troll you, or in any way connected to anyone that has. I assure you that's not the case. You do your utmost to help everyone on here and long may it continue. I'd still be gunning out sausages by hand if it wasn't for you. Oh, and I love my Azatom radio, thanks for suggesting that as well ðŸ˜
Ok, botulism. Maybe I shouldn't have brought that up. The fact is though that it can happen. It's not going to happen using liquids such as hydros or preserved liquids which are the ones you had in mind. To summarise, botulism can occur in oil as it's a perfect, anaerobic, low acidity environment. With hydros, it can't, as it's a highly acidic and quite often salty environment. The water content here is irrelevant as it's the acidity that inhibits the bacteria responsible for botulism. I've got home fermented pickles at home that look like vegetables in water. But it's not water , its an acidic brine that preserves. I eat them all the time and I've never been ill. As for people getting their information from Google, it's just what people do nowadays.
Here's hoping everyone is happy now ðŸ˜
Thank you for the clarification guys.
My info was grabbed from AI just to try and help out, but it's good to have had more debate and clarification ðŸ‘
My info was grabbed from AI just to try and help out, but it's good to have had more debate and clarification ðŸ‘
In reply to Post #18
This is getting tedious now.
"There is little risk infusing garlic in oil "
For fish bait, maybe that is the case. You'd have to take that up with the authors of the article that Karlos posted.
" spores are on pretty much all the fruit and veg we eat "
Correct. But they are not in an environment in which they can proliferate. Once they are, then this is when problems could arise.
" If in doubt, acidification wouldn't be the way "
Not with oils obviously, as acids are not soluble in oils.
This is getting tedious now.
"There is little risk infusing garlic in oil "
For fish bait, maybe that is the case. You'd have to take that up with the authors of the article that Karlos posted.
" spores are on pretty much all the fruit and veg we eat "
Correct. But they are not in an environment in which they can proliferate. Once they are, then this is when problems could arise.
" If in doubt, acidification wouldn't be the way "
Not with oils obviously, as acids are not soluble in oils.
In reply to Post #22
"For fish bait, maybe that is the case"
That is the context here isn't it. Fish bait...
"For fish bait, maybe that is the case"
That is the context here isn't it. Fish bait...
In reply to Post #23
Ah, yes. My mistake. What I actually meant was single ( and uneaten ) hookbaits might not be an issue. Introducing kilos and kilos of botulism infused boilies ? Probably not so good. TBH though, I don't think it could ever be a major issue. The nearest thing that many of the new generation of anglers get to bait preparation is opening a bag of Cell 😂
Ah, yes. My mistake. What I actually meant was single ( and uneaten ) hookbaits might not be an issue. Introducing kilos and kilos of botulism infused boilies ? Probably not so good. TBH though, I don't think it could ever be a major issue. The nearest thing that many of the new generation of anglers get to bait preparation is opening a bag of Cell 😂
In reply to Post #19
Do you make your own or is from the supermarket ? The garlic in oil that you buy from the supermarkets is perfectly safe. On the ingredients you'll probably see sulphites, salt, citric acid, ascorbic acid etc. All preservatives infused into the garlic to prevent spoilage after it goes into the jar of oil Similar process really to what the boffins from the university were recommending in the other post .
Do you make your own or is from the supermarket ? The garlic in oil that you buy from the supermarkets is perfectly safe. On the ingredients you'll probably see sulphites, salt, citric acid, ascorbic acid etc. All preservatives infused into the garlic to prevent spoilage after it goes into the jar of oil Similar process really to what the boffins from the university were recommending in the other post .
In reply to Post #25
No, I make make my own. I add garlic to extra virgin olive oil to dress things with, and I add garlic to ground nut oil to use in cooking.
No, I make make my own. I add garlic to extra virgin olive oil to dress things with, and I add garlic to ground nut oil to use in cooking.
In reply to Post #26
Fair enough. I do the same, just as and when I need it. I don't store it as such because of the risks mentioned previously. Anyways, it's all irrelevant now, as the original post and some of the subsequent replies have been deleted. Mods may as well delete the entire thread if desired. Sad really, as I love what Mark puts on here and honestly didn't mean to upset him. It's a shame that sometimes, a comment posted to genuinely just point out a potential issue can go tits up. But that's the internet for ya. I'll take a back seat for a bit and just watch for a bit methinks ðŸ˜
Fair enough. I do the same, just as and when I need it. I don't store it as such because of the risks mentioned previously. Anyways, it's all irrelevant now, as the original post and some of the subsequent replies have been deleted. Mods may as well delete the entire thread if desired. Sad really, as I love what Mark puts on here and honestly didn't mean to upset him. It's a shame that sometimes, a comment posted to genuinely just point out a potential issue can go tits up. But that's the internet for ya. I'll take a back seat for a bit and just watch for a bit methinks ðŸ˜
In reply to Post #15
Bloody hell! I nearly screenshot that post, wish I had now with my useless memory lol
Bloody hell! I nearly screenshot that post, wish I had now with my useless memory lol
In reply to Post #28
Just soak a bit of chopped garlic in an acidic hydro. And use as a bait soak. That's it really, no drama ðŸ˜
Just soak a bit of chopped garlic in an acidic hydro. And use as a bait soak. That's it really, no drama ðŸ˜
In reply to Post #29
There's a good selection of ph meter's around these days to check what you end up with, I always aim for sub 4.2 in my marine liquids, which requires the addition of lactic and maybe some citric. The lactic I make myself every 2 months. This low ph I think is a benefit on it's own.
There are plenty of extremely useful video's on you tube regarding fermenting for human consumption, sauerkraut kimche kefir etc, they will show you how to do it properly, 'clean living' iirc is one my wife watches and is always fermenting various things, but there is often a failure somewhere, it is very easy to mess something up and end up with something revolting or toxic, no different with bait. It isn't a simple procedure and must be done with full understanding, care and respect to avoid problems.
There's a good selection of ph meter's around these days to check what you end up with, I always aim for sub 4.2 in my marine liquids, which requires the addition of lactic and maybe some citric. The lactic I make myself every 2 months. This low ph I think is a benefit on it's own.
There are plenty of extremely useful video's on you tube regarding fermenting for human consumption, sauerkraut kimche kefir etc, they will show you how to do it properly, 'clean living' iirc is one my wife watches and is always fermenting various things, but there is often a failure somewhere, it is very easy to mess something up and end up with something revolting or toxic, no different with bait. It isn't a simple procedure and must be done with full understanding, care and respect to avoid problems.