In reply to Post #15
" even good baits will blow"
Not convinced either. I can well understand a basic, highly flavoured ( or low flavoured as well ) semo / soya bait losing it's appeal through heavy use. I would assume that over time, the carp would just naturally need certain other nutrients and so seek them out elsewhere. Over the last 35 years of making bait, I've never experienced any baits " blow " . I just get bored or repulsed with certain smells ( Monster Crab ! ) and decide on a new one. I will add though that my mixes are around 30 - 40 % protein, 6 - 12 % fat. In recent years I've also added vitamins ( especially vitamin c ) and minerals. Just look at how well nutritionally balanced pellets are accepted, even on lakes that are regularly fished and baited with angler's bait.
" even good baits will blow"
Not convinced either. I can well understand a basic, highly flavoured ( or low flavoured as well ) semo / soya bait losing it's appeal through heavy use. I would assume that over time, the carp would just naturally need certain other nutrients and so seek them out elsewhere. Over the last 35 years of making bait, I've never experienced any baits " blow " . I just get bored or repulsed with certain smells ( Monster Crab ! ) and decide on a new one. I will add though that my mixes are around 30 - 40 % protein, 6 - 12 % fat. In recent years I've also added vitamins ( especially vitamin c ) and minerals. Just look at how well nutritionally balanced pellets are accepted, even on lakes that are regularly fished and baited with angler's bait.
In reply to Post #14
Nah baits don't "blow". If they did then some of the commercially made stuff that gets used by so many anglers wouldn't work like it used to. How long has mainline cell or sticky krill for example been working places for? And things like corn, maize, tigers too.
Nah baits don't "blow". If they did then some of the commercially made stuff that gets used by so many anglers wouldn't work like it used to. How long has mainline cell or sticky krill for example been working places for? And things like corn, maize, tigers too.
In reply to Post #17
Alright matey calm down - in my opinion then yes absolutely baits become less effective over time and certainly across the seasons. I fish a water where 90% of the anglers use the ‘house' bait and it is brilliant - but despite the change of labels it has slowed up massively and my last few fish have been on alternatives whilst still persevering with the old bait to test.
Very narrow minded to think that a bait has an unlimited lifespan - yes cell and sticky will catch but used across the land in various fashions. One bait will never keep doing it day in and day out, when it's round and uniform.
Like I say in my opinion and having just returned home from a day session - my results have improved with a change. It's not better it's different.
Alright matey calm down - in my opinion then yes absolutely baits become less effective over time and certainly across the seasons. I fish a water where 90% of the anglers use the ‘house' bait and it is brilliant - but despite the change of labels it has slowed up massively and my last few fish have been on alternatives whilst still persevering with the old bait to test.
Very narrow minded to think that a bait has an unlimited lifespan - yes cell and sticky will catch but used across the land in various fashions. One bait will never keep doing it day in and day out, when it's round and uniform.
Like I say in my opinion and having just returned home from a day session - my results have improved with a change. It's not better it's different.
In reply to Post #18
Perfectly calm chap, not sure why you'd think otherwise? I was only saying I think you're wrong. Imo lakes will get harder over time naturally, due to the pressure of being fished for as opposed to because of the particular bait being used. People have been claiming baits blow over time, and also rigs too. I personally think both are incorrect. A good bait is always a good bait. And let's be honest, with the majority of baits containing multiple ingredients,a lot of which change themselves because they are a natural source (fish meals being a prime example) ,baits are rarely 100% identical across different batches
Perfectly calm chap, not sure why you'd think otherwise? I was only saying I think you're wrong. Imo lakes will get harder over time naturally, due to the pressure of being fished for as opposed to because of the particular bait being used. People have been claiming baits blow over time, and also rigs too. I personally think both are incorrect. A good bait is always a good bait. And let's be honest, with the majority of baits containing multiple ingredients,a lot of which change themselves because they are a natural source (fish meals being a prime example) ,baits are rarely 100% identical across different batches
The other argument, is the bait really blowing or is what people putting on the hair blowing. Bet if you walked round most lakes in the country, 95% of anglers are using an “alternative” one on the rig. So not really the free bait blowing, more so a bright or over flavoured one.
In reply to Post #19
Apologies, it was just your statement of fact rather than opinion in the original post that sounded a bit OTT.
On a very basic level - bait companies would only sell one bait (the best) if baits didn't blow (when I say blow I mean become less effective because of continued use). The challenge I think with the main bait manufacturers you say are that because of the volume they sell, the fish up and down the country are being caught probably one in every ten thousand baits eaten so the odds are good and memory not really trained. Put that together with probably a dozen different bait companies and you are probably right that they either won't blow or the difference will be negligible.
I don't really fish this type of water - for the past probably 10 years I have used a brilliant quality bait that the syndicate owner put together - it was brilliant, to such an extent that even sponsored anglers had to use it on-the water in question otherwise they really didn't catch much. Obviously the more people that used it - the more fish got caught on it - until this year when I consider it to have ‘blown' or in my thinking become very inefficient. I would guess over 75% of fish caught were on this bait. I still used this same bait on other waters and caught well but the concentration of captures on the other water saw me change.
A blown bait (for me) doesn't mean you won't catch on it - it means it's past it's best - approached with more caution and after a few years time to change. Nothing lasts forever.
You say about fish meals and natural sources - they may be natural but they are not in their environment- hence the evolution over years from milk, bird foods, fish meal, insect meal etc. we are forever looking for a bait that can't blow - a rolled version of a caster or a worm, something that it is impossible for a fish to ever associate with danger - if it's round and manufactured I doubt it will ever happen.
So in my humble opinion a good bait may always be a bait with good fishing catching ingredients - it may also always be attractive- BUT it can and I believe does become less effective over time - in my head it ‘blows'.
Interesting discussion and if you have total and utter confidence in a bait,there is no better feeling - I have had my share of these times - but from personal experience a change when done thoughtfully won't turn the clock back completely- but can re boot both catches and confidence. Tight lines..
Apologies, it was just your statement of fact rather than opinion in the original post that sounded a bit OTT.
On a very basic level - bait companies would only sell one bait (the best) if baits didn't blow (when I say blow I mean become less effective because of continued use). The challenge I think with the main bait manufacturers you say are that because of the volume they sell, the fish up and down the country are being caught probably one in every ten thousand baits eaten so the odds are good and memory not really trained. Put that together with probably a dozen different bait companies and you are probably right that they either won't blow or the difference will be negligible.
I don't really fish this type of water - for the past probably 10 years I have used a brilliant quality bait that the syndicate owner put together - it was brilliant, to such an extent that even sponsored anglers had to use it on-the water in question otherwise they really didn't catch much. Obviously the more people that used it - the more fish got caught on it - until this year when I consider it to have ‘blown' or in my thinking become very inefficient. I would guess over 75% of fish caught were on this bait. I still used this same bait on other waters and caught well but the concentration of captures on the other water saw me change.
A blown bait (for me) doesn't mean you won't catch on it - it means it's past it's best - approached with more caution and after a few years time to change. Nothing lasts forever.
You say about fish meals and natural sources - they may be natural but they are not in their environment- hence the evolution over years from milk, bird foods, fish meal, insect meal etc. we are forever looking for a bait that can't blow - a rolled version of a caster or a worm, something that it is impossible for a fish to ever associate with danger - if it's round and manufactured I doubt it will ever happen.
So in my humble opinion a good bait may always be a bait with good fishing catching ingredients - it may also always be attractive- BUT it can and I believe does become less effective over time - in my head it ‘blows'.
Interesting discussion and if you have total and utter confidence in a bait,there is no better feeling - I have had my share of these times - but from personal experience a change when done thoughtfully won't turn the clock back completely- but can re boot both catches and confidence. Tight lines..
In reply to Post #21
I don't think bait companies would ever make only one bait, for various reasons. One being some waters respond much better to fishmeals, some nut baits, some birdfood baits. Another being other factors of the lake, i.e water clarity, bird life, depth etc. Some lakes are impossible to use anything but very dark baits because of birds etc. some baits are naturally firmer than others so some will go out in a throwing stick and others will just split. Some baits provide nutrients others don't which can alter their effectiveness from water to water, and also at different time of year when the fish need different things.And then we have those people who think that the reason someone is catching or not catching is down to the bait they are using. It seems to be the go to reason for someone to blame their blank on rather than themselves. Go and fish a busy day ticket water for example, catch a few fish and the first thing you'll get asked is what bait you are using, because people think that's why you're catching them as opposed to fishing well, presenting it nicely, in the right spot etc.
So realistically there is no "best bait".
Plenty of water get fished primarily on one bait, you'll find that many have a local bait company close by and "team members" get on them, catch a few and then start knocking in cheap bait to other anglers. I know of a couple close to me that have been getting the same baits going in for many years now and they work just as well even though the vast majority of anglers use them and catch the fish in them.
I absolutely believe things don't "blow" at all, and I bet very very few experienced anglers still believe that they do
I don't think bait companies would ever make only one bait, for various reasons. One being some waters respond much better to fishmeals, some nut baits, some birdfood baits. Another being other factors of the lake, i.e water clarity, bird life, depth etc. Some lakes are impossible to use anything but very dark baits because of birds etc. some baits are naturally firmer than others so some will go out in a throwing stick and others will just split. Some baits provide nutrients others don't which can alter their effectiveness from water to water, and also at different time of year when the fish need different things.And then we have those people who think that the reason someone is catching or not catching is down to the bait they are using. It seems to be the go to reason for someone to blame their blank on rather than themselves. Go and fish a busy day ticket water for example, catch a few fish and the first thing you'll get asked is what bait you are using, because people think that's why you're catching them as opposed to fishing well, presenting it nicely, in the right spot etc.
So realistically there is no "best bait".
Plenty of water get fished primarily on one bait, you'll find that many have a local bait company close by and "team members" get on them, catch a few and then start knocking in cheap bait to other anglers. I know of a couple close to me that have been getting the same baits going in for many years now and they work just as well even though the vast majority of anglers use them and catch the fish in them.
I absolutely believe things don't "blow" at all, and I bet very very few experienced anglers still believe that they do
In reply to Post #22
I agree with all than Ian except I'm not so sure for the last sentence.
I've read articles from so called experienced anglers and many of them have said some daft things sometimes in my opinion.
I agree with all than Ian except I'm not so sure for the last sentence.
I've read articles from so called experienced anglers and many of them have said some daft things sometimes in my opinion.
In reply to Post #22
Experienced anglers LOL
Experienced anglers LOL
In reply to Post #24
What's so funny? There is a big different between a 3 year angler and a 30 year one in the majority of cases
What's so funny? There is a big different between a 3 year angler and a 30 year one in the majority of cases
In reply to Post #23
Oh for sure some have some strange ideas. And the bait side of things probably causes more debate than most subjects within angling. Can't think of the last time I heard anyone other than 55s claim baits blow though Tbh
Oh for sure some have some strange ideas. And the bait side of things probably causes more debate than most subjects within angling. Can't think of the last time I heard anyone other than 55s claim baits blow though Tbh
I'm no expert, but carp are curious creatures, using a new bait could induce a response from a carp that is wary of a bait it has been caught on but still likes to eat. I'm pretty sure this is where specialized hookbaits score. You don't feed 5kg of the most expensive baits in the world do you. The cherry on the cake gets eaten.
In reply to Post #27
I'm not sure that a carp can associate one taste with danger.
They must eat umpteen different things, if they can they'd have to be caught numerous times on one particular bait to make the association.
And what if during that time they get caught on another bait? I don't think they are that clever they can do a totting up process and work out the odds.
I'm not sure that a carp can associate one taste with danger.
They must eat umpteen different things, if they can they'd have to be caught numerous times on one particular bait to make the association.
And what if during that time they get caught on another bait? I don't think they are that clever they can do a totting up process and work out the odds.
In reply to Post #8
I had a very good season on their Artic Crab, it was excellent for me in all seasons.
I had a very good season on their Artic Crab, it was excellent for me in all seasons.
In reply to Post #21
I don't think baits blow. I think generally, anglers just get bored of them. When a bait company brings out a new bait, then their older baits fall down the pecking order. These baits are still the same quality and will still catch fish. These bait companies do a really good job in advertising new baits with lots of catch reports etc. they do a great job in convincing people they need to be on the "going bait" through fomo.
There are that many baits about nowadays. If you walked a lake and asked every angler what they where using, it would be unlikely you would find any more than 2 using the same.
I don't think baits blow. I think generally, anglers just get bored of them. When a bait company brings out a new bait, then their older baits fall down the pecking order. These baits are still the same quality and will still catch fish. These bait companies do a really good job in advertising new baits with lots of catch reports etc. they do a great job in convincing people they need to be on the "going bait" through fomo.
There are that many baits about nowadays. If you walked a lake and asked every angler what they where using, it would be unlikely you would find any more than 2 using the same.