In reply to Post #15
If something is water soluble then it would be reACTing with the water giving off some kind of signal whether thats an eat me signal or not.
But like i say that leads you down many paths regarding P.h, amino acids, enzymes e.t.c loads of good info on here.
The term 'active' was a very good (although correct) marketing name
If something is water soluble then it would be reACTing with the water giving off some kind of signal whether thats an eat me signal or not.
But like i say that leads you down many paths regarding P.h, amino acids, enzymes e.t.c loads of good info on here.
The term 'active' was a very good (although correct) marketing name
In reply to Post #16
But Mainline cell is not water soluble.
But Mainline cell is not water soluble.
In reply to Post #17
It will have some water soluble components like most baits be it amino acids , sugars, salts, liquid additives, taste enhancers e.t.c
I was just highlighting in your original question that the use of the term 'active' doesnt really mean much without context as most baits are active to great or lesser degree.
It will have some water soluble components like most baits be it amino acids , sugars, salts, liquid additives, taste enhancers e.t.c
I was just highlighting in your original question that the use of the term 'active' doesnt really mean much without context as most baits are active to great or lesser degree.
In reply to Post #17
define soluble?
there is 100% soluble (nothing left) or 0% (still the same)
there are a hell of a lot of things that fall into partly soluble where some of it dissolves into water but not all of it.
define soluble?
there is 100% soluble (nothing left) or 0% (still the same)
there are a hell of a lot of things that fall into partly soluble where some of it dissolves into water but not all of it.
In reply to Post #12
Yeast, or at least it did.
Yeast, or at least it did.
In reply to Post #20
I would have thought any yeasts in boilies were the inert kind, used for the cell wall structure but essentially dead. If you add warm water to say Brocacell like you would live bread yeast, it won't do anything. Can you imagine what would happen to the boilies in the bag if the yeast was active on a hot day. You'd open the bag to find a load of exploded mush.
I would have thought any yeasts in boilies were the inert kind, used for the cell wall structure but essentially dead. If you add warm water to say Brocacell like you would live bread yeast, it won't do anything. Can you imagine what would happen to the boilies in the bag if the yeast was active on a hot day. You'd open the bag to find a load of exploded mush.
In reply to Post #21
Inert in respect to turning sugar into alcohol. Although, some people believe that ‘dead' yeasts such as brewers and brocacel still create a low level of fermentation, particularly in contact with water and sugars in the bait.
It's known that bacteria feed on yeast and yeast cultures, this would make a bait ‘active' in the right conditions.
The original Cell bait certainly turned. We are back to what people class as ‘active'
Inert in respect to turning sugar into alcohol. Although, some people believe that ‘dead' yeasts such as brewers and brocacel still create a low level of fermentation, particularly in contact with water and sugars in the bait.
It's known that bacteria feed on yeast and yeast cultures, this would make a bait ‘active' in the right conditions.
The original Cell bait certainly turned. We are back to what people class as ‘active'
In reply to Post #22
I would say bacteria feed on most baits.
I would say bacteria feed on most baits.
In reply to Post #23
Of course, bacteria are ubiquitous.
Of course, bacteria are ubiquitous.
Most baits these days are made with completely shelf life Ingredients aren't they? Other than
the eggs
We use shelf life hook baits, shelf life pellets, i don't really see why boilies should be any different. i do agree there is a period with some fresh baits that just as they start to turn they are superior, but it's a very fine window, maybe 12 hours, it's very difficult to manage on the bank
I used frozen when rules dictate, but I'm very happy with shelf life else where amd have seen no difference
the eggs
We use shelf life hook baits, shelf life pellets, i don't really see why boilies should be any different. i do agree there is a period with some fresh baits that just as they start to turn they are superior, but it's a very fine window, maybe 12 hours, it's very difficult to manage on the bank
I used frozen when rules dictate, but I'm very happy with shelf life else where amd have seen no difference
I make the question a bit simpler.
If I am able to apply bait regularly and it's my main water then I would use only the best bait, which I believe is fresh / frozen.
If I am going to catch fish on a day ticket, busy club water or fishing singles / very few baits I'm OK with shelf life's.
If you don't have freezer space or for other reasons just use shelf life's they will work, but for me there will always be a compromise- even if that is just in my head.
If I am able to apply bait regularly and it's my main water then I would use only the best bait, which I believe is fresh / frozen.
If I am going to catch fish on a day ticket, busy club water or fishing singles / very few baits I'm OK with shelf life's.
If you don't have freezer space or for other reasons just use shelf life's they will work, but for me there will always be a compromise- even if that is just in my head.
My issue with shelf life bait is that it is often not clear how the baits are being preserved. People only seem to care that they are soft.
If they are using the same ingredients but just being dried out a bit more, maybe a coat of vegetable glycerine then I would be happy to feed that bait.
Many bait makers claim something like very low levels of a human food grade preservative. I want to know what that is and has it been tested to be proven to be safe for the fish. Fish aren't humans and that preservative is a chemical that may have a detrimental effect on the health/life span of the fish.
I've read/heard (Dave Moore?) that even the preservatives deemed as ok by bait makers can have an effect on the gut mechanisms and nutritional uptake of a bait. If that is the case I don't want to feed it.
Giving up a draw in my freezer to keep 10KG of quality fresh frozen, preservative free bait is fine with me.
If they are using the same ingredients but just being dried out a bit more, maybe a coat of vegetable glycerine then I would be happy to feed that bait.
Many bait makers claim something like very low levels of a human food grade preservative. I want to know what that is and has it been tested to be proven to be safe for the fish. Fish aren't humans and that preservative is a chemical that may have a detrimental effect on the health/life span of the fish.
I've read/heard (Dave Moore?) that even the preservatives deemed as ok by bait makers can have an effect on the gut mechanisms and nutritional uptake of a bait. If that is the case I don't want to feed it.
Giving up a draw in my freezer to keep 10KG of quality fresh frozen, preservative free bait is fine with me.
In reply to Post #27
Unless you are making your own then you will never know what is added / amounts to your baits regardless of what your told, it will always come down to trust, observations & results, not just if the baits are soft but they are different to the ones available many years ago.
I thought the main preservative used was Potassium Sorbate amongst others, plenty of research been done on it Mice etc and has been found to reduce gut bacteria I believe.
AA Baits website say's it's been tested as safe to use in an aquatic environment.
How would we know that all sorts of stuff in our baits is safe & tested on fish and possible long term effects? We don't.
If worried then I'd advise anyone to contact their bait maker and ask, they should be forthcoming.
Unless you are making your own then you will never know what is added / amounts to your baits regardless of what your told, it will always come down to trust, observations & results, not just if the baits are soft but they are different to the ones available many years ago.
I thought the main preservative used was Potassium Sorbate amongst others, plenty of research been done on it Mice etc and has been found to reduce gut bacteria I believe.
AA Baits website say's it's been tested as safe to use in an aquatic environment.
How would we know that all sorts of stuff in our baits is safe & tested on fish and possible long term effects? We don't.
If worried then I'd advise anyone to contact their bait maker and ask, they should be forthcoming.
In reply to Post #27
there are LOADS of published science papers on gut bacteria in carp & the ingredients that enhance them.
re vegetable glycerine - the only tiger nuts I can get over here are from decathlon & they are shelfies that use this stuff & straight out of the bag, I struggle to get a bite on them. I actually have to completely go through the preparation process again - to make them effective
there are LOADS of published science papers on gut bacteria in carp & the ingredients that enhance them.
re vegetable glycerine - the only tiger nuts I can get over here are from decathlon & they are shelfies that use this stuff & straight out of the bag, I struggle to get a bite on them. I actually have to completely go through the preparation process again - to make them effective
In reply to Post #28
I have to use shelf life baits now, as I no longer have a bait freezer. In my experience baits that are preserved with potassium sorbate, and have an extended drying time, will last for several months, if kept in a relatively cool place and away from moisture. I've not had a problem catching on these baits. Not saying freezer baits wouldn't be better. Just that shelf life baits work well. I normally give them a swirl with 10ml of the relevant liquid per kilo the day before I go.
I have to use shelf life baits now, as I no longer have a bait freezer. In my experience baits that are preserved with potassium sorbate, and have an extended drying time, will last for several months, if kept in a relatively cool place and away from moisture. I've not had a problem catching on these baits. Not saying freezer baits wouldn't be better. Just that shelf life baits work well. I normally give them a swirl with 10ml of the relevant liquid per kilo the day before I go.