In reply to Post #15
Birdfoods lots are more expensive than good LT fishmeals, in many cases now.
Priced themselves out of many a home roller /commercial bait nowadays by being too greedy, and expensive to use at the recommended, and preferred amounts or levels.
How come the really good Human grade milk proteins don't seem to be that affected by big price hikes ?
Got to be more work involved to filter that milk to end product like Casein's and Whey protein.
Birdfoods lots are more expensive than good LT fishmeals, in many cases now.
Priced themselves out of many a home roller /commercial bait nowadays by being too greedy, and expensive to use at the recommended, and preferred amounts or levels.
How come the really good Human grade milk proteins don't seem to be that affected by big price hikes ?
Got to be more work involved to filter that milk to end product like Casein's and Whey protein.
In reply to Post #16
Milk products shouldn't be going up with the overproduction of raw materials. where they do other companys fill the gap. some amazing milk proteins that arent french now!
Birdfoods more add binding and texture so really, I'm not sure its worth looking beyond those two factors, nutritive and attractive properties are better adressed with marine extracts etc.
I think we're just about done developing the best HNV "nut" style bait I've ever seen, its taken a long time ( no releases since 2014! ) but its brilliant, loaded with liver and cpsp90 ( in decent quantities ) as well as the usual suspects of tigernut and peanut, then the refined milks, acid and rennet, wpc80 etc.
unfortuantely it'll now be 20 quid a kilo no discounts
Milk products shouldn't be going up with the overproduction of raw materials. where they do other companys fill the gap. some amazing milk proteins that arent french now!
Birdfoods more add binding and texture so really, I'm not sure its worth looking beyond those two factors, nutritive and attractive properties are better adressed with marine extracts etc.
I think we're just about done developing the best HNV "nut" style bait I've ever seen, its taken a long time ( no releases since 2014! ) but its brilliant, loaded with liver and cpsp90 ( in decent quantities ) as well as the usual suspects of tigernut and peanut, then the refined milks, acid and rennet, wpc80 etc.
unfortuantely it'll now be 20 quid a kilo no discounts
In reply to Post #17
I'm hearing it's down to transport costs and gas prices
I'm hearing it's down to transport costs and gas prices
In reply to Post #18
But if a British firm took it upon themselves to make milk protein.... Could be interesting
But if a British firm took it upon themselves to make milk protein.... Could be interesting
In reply to Post #19
The funny thing is they used to, but our friend the Common Market meant that prices of European produced milk proteins were easier to get hold of than UK produced.
The UK apparently over produces milk, so where does the excess go? Perfect source of the main component needed for milk ingredients.
The funny thing is they used to, but our friend the Common Market meant that prices of European produced milk proteins were easier to get hold of than UK produced.
The UK apparently over produces milk, so where does the excess go? Perfect source of the main component needed for milk ingredients.
In reply to Post #16
arent they dear to start with
aka john baker milk mixes
i did toy with the idea of using a recipe i saw online from a chap who used to publish alot of content and got me interested in making bait.
the "milk based" one is
Maize flour
Semolina
Vitamealo
Acid Casein
colour
flavour
and does a proper milk bait offer more effective attraction than a FM?
arent they dear to start with
aka john baker milk mixes
i did toy with the idea of using a recipe i saw online from a chap who used to publish alot of content and got me interested in making bait.
the "milk based" one is
Maize flour
Semolina
Vitamealo
Acid Casein
colour
flavour
and does a proper milk bait offer more effective attraction than a FM?
In reply to Post #21
I'll say it now
John bakers base mixes are no where near worth the money he charges.
With regards to your mix, its not really a milk mix unless you see percentages that could essentially be a sweetened 50-50 mix?
As for attraction, I've only seen 3 milk products that perform anywhere near as well as fishmeal in terms of attraction and certain not the hydrolysed fish proteins which in my opinion cannot be beaten.
Bear in mind all good balanced fishmeal baits usually contain an element of milks, in cheap baits it'll be a soy based milk replacer for fifty quid a sack, in the premium versions, you move onto whey protein, caseinates and caseins etc. this is usually done to balance out the nutritional content of the mix.
I'll say it now
John bakers base mixes are no where near worth the money he charges.
With regards to your mix, its not really a milk mix unless you see percentages that could essentially be a sweetened 50-50 mix?
As for attraction, I've only seen 3 milk products that perform anywhere near as well as fishmeal in terms of attraction and certain not the hydrolysed fish proteins which in my opinion cannot be beaten.
Bear in mind all good balanced fishmeal baits usually contain an element of milks, in cheap baits it'll be a soy based milk replacer for fifty quid a sack, in the premium versions, you move onto whey protein, caseinates and caseins etc. this is usually done to balance out the nutritional content of the mix.
In reply to Post #21
I don't think that milk protein bases are as good as any meat or fish based bait. They need additional amylase and trypsin added to the mix to be able to be utilised.
The base mix you have posted is basic, and quite literally just a carrier for the flavour. You could improve it quite easily, by adding liver powder (around 25-30% of the base mix) or a fishmeal. I think liver is a better year round addition than an oily fishmeal.
I don't think that milk protein bases are as good as any meat or fish based bait. They need additional amylase and trypsin added to the mix to be able to be utilised.
The base mix you have posted is basic, and quite literally just a carrier for the flavour. You could improve it quite easily, by adding liver powder (around 25-30% of the base mix) or a fishmeal. I think liver is a better year round addition than an oily fishmeal.
In reply to Post #22
I would rather use a milk protein mix than a fishmeal mix without milk protein. I should say that nearly all my mixes contain yeast and liver as well be that a fish, milk, birdfood or nut mix.
Fishmeal with 10% milk protein is in a different league to a fishmeal mix without the Milks, well they have been in my experience anyway.
I would rather use a milk protein mix than a fishmeal mix without milk protein. I should say that nearly all my mixes contain yeast and liver as well be that a fish, milk, birdfood or nut mix.
Fishmeal with 10% milk protein is in a different league to a fishmeal mix without the Milks, well they have been in my experience anyway.
In reply to Post #22
Nothing John baker sells is worth the money he charges....
Nothing John baker sells is worth the money he charges....
In reply to Post #24
Yep I agree with that!!
Yep I agree with that!!
In reply to Post #26
You'd rather use a pure milk protein basemix that a fishmeal without milk protein?
You'd rather use a pure milk protein basemix that a fishmeal without milk protein?
In reply to Post #23
to me a flavour carrier mix is just a 50/50 of soya and semo?
the addition of the milk bits and bobs makes it a little more than that?
like i say pretty new to it all so was just starting off pretty basic.
to me a flavour carrier mix is just a 50/50 of soya and semo?
the addition of the milk bits and bobs makes it a little more than that?
like i say pretty new to it all so was just starting off pretty basic.
In reply to Post #28
To me a milk protein based bait should be 50 % or more milk proteins, which unless balanced with additional items in my opinion is a pretty poor bait.
To me a milk protein based bait should be 50 % or more milk proteins, which unless balanced with additional items in my opinion is a pretty poor bait.
In reply to Post #27
No I was agreeing that the Fishmeal baits that contain good milks make the best baits. I don't think anything can better the blend of fish to milk to bird food combo. Out and out milk baits are a pain to work with, and lack certain salts, minerals and textures that carp find attractive. I'm a big milk fan, but the use of quality caseins etc is disappearing due to cost. More reason to use them now if you want to make good baits. One fact that will never change. Carp love fishmeals. And milk products are also attractive to them and provide certain functions within a bait to help them work longer in cold water. Certain ingredients that are good for humans and mammals seem to provide attraction or nutrition for carp. I'm happy with the baits we make now but to be honest the theory is 40/50 years old. I have never honestly seen a cheap soy semo bait out catch a proper balanced food bait over the course of a season! And this year it has been boilies versus particle on two venues I fish. The boilies have won hands down even though the particles have been applied en masse!
Why is this? I think the carp love crunching particles but they also know that one boilie tastes better and does them more good than a piece of hempseed! I can never prove this of course but I have not used big beds of particles for years now and I'm catching more big fish and quicker than ever before! If everyone used really good boilies then that may not be the case. The big particle companies made sure everyone had particle in the mix down in Oxfordshire........ but the best hits we had were on fishmeal/milk/bird boilies! I hope next year that everyone hammers the particle again 😉
No I was agreeing that the Fishmeal baits that contain good milks make the best baits. I don't think anything can better the blend of fish to milk to bird food combo. Out and out milk baits are a pain to work with, and lack certain salts, minerals and textures that carp find attractive. I'm a big milk fan, but the use of quality caseins etc is disappearing due to cost. More reason to use them now if you want to make good baits. One fact that will never change. Carp love fishmeals. And milk products are also attractive to them and provide certain functions within a bait to help them work longer in cold water. Certain ingredients that are good for humans and mammals seem to provide attraction or nutrition for carp. I'm happy with the baits we make now but to be honest the theory is 40/50 years old. I have never honestly seen a cheap soy semo bait out catch a proper balanced food bait over the course of a season! And this year it has been boilies versus particle on two venues I fish. The boilies have won hands down even though the particles have been applied en masse!
Why is this? I think the carp love crunching particles but they also know that one boilie tastes better and does them more good than a piece of hempseed! I can never prove this of course but I have not used big beds of particles for years now and I'm catching more big fish and quicker than ever before! If everyone used really good boilies then that may not be the case. The big particle companies made sure everyone had particle in the mix down in Oxfordshire........ but the best hits we had were on fishmeal/milk/bird boilies! I hope next year that everyone hammers the particle again 😉