Having used various 25lb sinking braids almost exclusively over the past 12 years including Nash Bulllet, Fox Submerge and Gravitron, Gardner Hydro-Sink and Wychwood Epic brands I think I can be subjective on the subject.
I did not really get on with the Epic, as I didn't like the colour. However, I caught using it so I guess the carp didn't mind. I used it for one season on one set of reels, and used Fox Gravitron on another. Both preformed as expected with little discernible difference between the two. The Wychwood sank a bit better than the Gravitron but that's just a minor detail.
The original 25lb Fox Submerge was awful, but the Gravitron was OK. Then the new Submerge Plus came out and it was a different story. Where the original was crap the new one was superb. However, about three years ago they changed it again from what was a very decent sinking braid into a wire-like nightmare. The 25lb stuff is 0.16mm which IMO is far too thin for safe fishing. I used the 40lb ( 0.20mm) version for a year before switching it in favour of the Gardner stuff.
Hydro-Sink has a stated breaking strain of 22lb but that is with a straight forward linear pull. If it breaks at all it will go at the knot and at about 40-42lb, so plenty strong enough.
Nobody could ever call a sinking braid a good casting line. Bullet was pretty awful in that respect. The current Fox Submerge being so fine does cast well but you need to ensure it is soaking wet or wind knots will occur. I cannot in all truth call it a proper sinking braid either as I found it needed to be encouraged to break the surface tension, while Submerge Plus and Hydro-Sink cut through it more or less straight away without the need for any encouragement. Frankly, if you want to cast a long way don't use sinking braids.
The current Gardner braid appears to me to be very similar to the Fox Submerge Plus, which I liked a lot. For the past three years I have been on Gardner Hydro-sink and it has been excellent. It is loaded on all three sets of reels, Fox FX11, FX9 and Shimmy Techies.
All the braids I have used become sun-kissed. I still catch when they have lost a bit of dye but I feel a bit uneasy using them. I therefore colour mine for the first 40-50m with marker pens. I cannot tell you it makes a difference but I feel a bit more confident in the coloured line.
I know there are better braids out there but for my type of fishing the Gardner Hydro-Sink is excellent and I can recommend it wholeheartedly. Bear in mind that I fish very slack lines where I can get away with such a tactic and the Hydro-Sink does exactly what it says on the tin..It sinks!
I have also used a braid which I believe is termed neutral buoyancy, namely 53lb PowerPro (actually a more realistic b.s. would be about 45lb). I use this for one specific purpose and that is to fish on a certain section of the River Lot in France where the bottom is hard and sharp and the last thing I want it for the line to sink. I therefore fish in a similar manner to the Rainbow anglers, using a very buoyant float to hold the line up off the bottom. The line 'my side' of the float does not come into contact with the river bed, a long Quicksilver abrasion leader taking on the task of resisting all the river bed can dish out.
This is probably TMI but as I am at a loose end more often that not, I can find the time to write in a bit more detail. here are a few pix, which I hope will help.
Original Fox Gravitron and Wychwood Epic.
2nd generation version of Fox Submerge. Great braid on a terrible reel!
This is the newest version of Submerge. Way too fine for my liking
22lb Hydro-Sink.
22lb Hydro-Sink on FX9
Sun kissed Hydro Sink on FX11.
22lb Hydro-Sink on a Shimy coloured with marker pens.
Hydro-Sink slack.
PowerPro 53lb with long Quicksilver abrasion leader.
I did not really get on with the Epic, as I didn't like the colour. However, I caught using it so I guess the carp didn't mind. I used it for one season on one set of reels, and used Fox Gravitron on another. Both preformed as expected with little discernible difference between the two. The Wychwood sank a bit better than the Gravitron but that's just a minor detail.
The original 25lb Fox Submerge was awful, but the Gravitron was OK. Then the new Submerge Plus came out and it was a different story. Where the original was crap the new one was superb. However, about three years ago they changed it again from what was a very decent sinking braid into a wire-like nightmare. The 25lb stuff is 0.16mm which IMO is far too thin for safe fishing. I used the 40lb ( 0.20mm) version for a year before switching it in favour of the Gardner stuff.
Hydro-Sink has a stated breaking strain of 22lb but that is with a straight forward linear pull. If it breaks at all it will go at the knot and at about 40-42lb, so plenty strong enough.
Nobody could ever call a sinking braid a good casting line. Bullet was pretty awful in that respect. The current Fox Submerge being so fine does cast well but you need to ensure it is soaking wet or wind knots will occur. I cannot in all truth call it a proper sinking braid either as I found it needed to be encouraged to break the surface tension, while Submerge Plus and Hydro-Sink cut through it more or less straight away without the need for any encouragement. Frankly, if you want to cast a long way don't use sinking braids.
The current Gardner braid appears to me to be very similar to the Fox Submerge Plus, which I liked a lot. For the past three years I have been on Gardner Hydro-sink and it has been excellent. It is loaded on all three sets of reels, Fox FX11, FX9 and Shimmy Techies.
All the braids I have used become sun-kissed. I still catch when they have lost a bit of dye but I feel a bit uneasy using them. I therefore colour mine for the first 40-50m with marker pens. I cannot tell you it makes a difference but I feel a bit more confident in the coloured line.
I know there are better braids out there but for my type of fishing the Gardner Hydro-Sink is excellent and I can recommend it wholeheartedly. Bear in mind that I fish very slack lines where I can get away with such a tactic and the Hydro-Sink does exactly what it says on the tin..It sinks!
I have also used a braid which I believe is termed neutral buoyancy, namely 53lb PowerPro (actually a more realistic b.s. would be about 45lb). I use this for one specific purpose and that is to fish on a certain section of the River Lot in France where the bottom is hard and sharp and the last thing I want it for the line to sink. I therefore fish in a similar manner to the Rainbow anglers, using a very buoyant float to hold the line up off the bottom. The line 'my side' of the float does not come into contact with the river bed, a long Quicksilver abrasion leader taking on the task of resisting all the river bed can dish out.
This is probably TMI but as I am at a loose end more often that not, I can find the time to write in a bit more detail. here are a few pix, which I hope will help.
Original Fox Gravitron and Wychwood Epic.
2nd generation version of Fox Submerge. Great braid on a terrible reel!
This is the newest version of Submerge. Way too fine for my liking
22lb Hydro-Sink.
22lb Hydro-Sink on FX9
Sun kissed Hydro Sink on FX11.
22lb Hydro-Sink on a Shimy coloured with marker pens.
Hydro-Sink slack.
PowerPro 53lb with long Quicksilver abrasion leader.
In reply to Post #16
Well you won't get a more informative answer than that!
Well you won't get a more informative answer than that!
In reply to Post #17
After reading your comments, Chuffy, about hitting 120 yards using 15lb braid, I take back my comments about sinking braids not casting well. Clearly they do...Just not in the hands of this cack-handed caster!
After reading your comments, Chuffy, about hitting 120 yards using 15lb braid, I take back my comments about sinking braids not casting well. Clearly they do...Just not in the hands of this cack-handed caster!
In reply to Post #18
yards not metres though Ken
yards not metres though Ken
In reply to Post #19
Ooooops...Sorry about that. Post edited to show the correction.
Ooooops...Sorry about that. Post edited to show the correction.
In reply to Post #16
Interesting post, thank you. I'm new to using briad and have started to use the Hydra-sink for my fishing in France, I spooled up with it a couple of years back and have been to France twice a year since. I also found that the braid got faided by the sun but sank well and was very strong. It was good to cast as long as kept wet. My only reservation is that on 2 separate occasions the braid has been cut straight through fairly easily, I'm not sure if the first was by a pike attacking silver fish by the braid but the second time was shortly after the take so maybe it was laid accross something sharp on the bottom.. Is there a braid that is more resistant to being cut through or should I be considering using very long snag leaders and, if so, what might be my best options?
Interesting post, thank you. I'm new to using briad and have started to use the Hydra-sink for my fishing in France, I spooled up with it a couple of years back and have been to France twice a year since. I also found that the braid got faided by the sun but sank well and was very strong. It was good to cast as long as kept wet. My only reservation is that on 2 separate occasions the braid has been cut straight through fairly easily, I'm not sure if the first was by a pike attacking silver fish by the braid but the second time was shortly after the take so maybe it was laid accross something sharp on the bottom.. Is there a braid that is more resistant to being cut through or should I be considering using very long snag leaders and, if so, what might be my best options?
In reply to Post #21
Always use 20ft of Fluro between the lead core and braid to make sure everything is pinned down near the lead and give you a little stretch when playing fish under the tip
Always use 20ft of Fluro between the lead core and braid to make sure everything is pinned down near the lead and give you a little stretch when playing fish under the tip
In reply to Post #22
Always use 20ft of Fluro between the lead core and braid to make sure everything is pinned down near the lead and give you a little stretch when playing fish under the tip... No!!! ... what you have described is a is a death rig.
Have you ever stopped to think of the consequences of the knot going at the braid-to-fluoro connection? Even if you have set up the lead correctly to discharge on the take or when it touches a snag or weed, can you imagine anything worse for the fish than to drag not only a length of leadcore (3' possibly) and a 20' length of dense fluorocarbon? ... and if the lead is still on...
A 1.5m length of fluoro is all that is required to act, a) as a protection leader, and b) as a pin down measure. If you fish your main line semi slack the last 1.5m will definitely be on the bottom anyway, thanks to the density of the sinking braid + the fluoro header.
Please...I am not preaching here, as some may claim. I am a long term experienced braid user, as explained in post 16 and I have learned from my own mistakes, not least about leadcore itself, but that's a discussion for another day.
PLEASE have a re-think about this.
@ Graham: Most braids should be more abrasion resistant than mono. I have only had one a cut off in all the years I have been using braid and that was on the ultra-fine new version of Fox Submerge (0.20mm).
In certain circumstances, when allowing the braid to sink to the lake bed, it might settle across a mussel bed and on occasion the line might get pinched between the shell's lips. These are razor sharp and could account for your cut off.
I have also found that crayfish seem to have a linking to my braid from time to time and I sometimes reel one in still clinging to the braid main line.
Always use 20ft of Fluro between the lead core and braid to make sure everything is pinned down near the lead and give you a little stretch when playing fish under the tip... No!!! ... what you have described is a is a death rig.
Have you ever stopped to think of the consequences of the knot going at the braid-to-fluoro connection? Even if you have set up the lead correctly to discharge on the take or when it touches a snag or weed, can you imagine anything worse for the fish than to drag not only a length of leadcore (3' possibly) and a 20' length of dense fluorocarbon? ... and if the lead is still on...
A 1.5m length of fluoro is all that is required to act, a) as a protection leader, and b) as a pin down measure. If you fish your main line semi slack the last 1.5m will definitely be on the bottom anyway, thanks to the density of the sinking braid + the fluoro header.
Please...I am not preaching here, as some may claim. I am a long term experienced braid user, as explained in post 16 and I have learned from my own mistakes, not least about leadcore itself, but that's a discussion for another day.
PLEASE have a re-think about this.
@ Graham: Most braids should be more abrasion resistant than mono. I have only had one a cut off in all the years I have been using braid and that was on the ultra-fine new version of Fox Submerge (0.20mm).
In certain circumstances, when allowing the braid to sink to the lake bed, it might settle across a mussel bed and on occasion the line might get pinched between the shell's lips. These are razor sharp and could account for your cut off.
I have also found that crayfish seem to have a linking to my braid from time to time and I sometimes reel one in still clinging to the braid main line.
In reply to Post #16
Can I ask what pen you use to colour the line- I'm assuming a normal black felt tip pen?
Can I ask what pen you use to colour the line- I'm assuming a normal black felt tip pen?
In reply to Post #22
I thought fluoro had virtually no stretch. I think a rod with a forgiving action is more likely to be helpful when fishing with braid and a fluoro leader.
I thought fluoro had virtually no stretch. I think a rod with a forgiving action is more likely to be helpful when fishing with braid and a fluoro leader.
In reply to Post #25
It has more stretch than braid.
It has more stretch than braid.
In reply to Post #25
Yes , but not much stretch in 1.5 meters. Which as ken suggests is all I would use.
Yes , but not much stretch in 1.5 meters. Which as ken suggests is all I would use.
In reply to Post #23
You're not preaching, you're sharing your experience
It's what forums are for.
You're not preaching, you're sharing your experience
It's what forums are for.
In reply to Post #16
Was really in to using braid but i saw how much theese one cost...
Be like 80 to fill up my spools. Guess i can half fill my spools
With mono 1st. Ive never going to need 500m worth of braid
On my reels
Was really in to using braid but i saw how much theese one cost...
Be like 80 to fill up my spools. Guess i can half fill my spools
With mono 1st. Ive never going to need 500m worth of braid
On my reels
In reply to Post #29
I've only ever put 150yds on my spools. I doubt many could chuck near that with thick braid anyway. Once it faded after a year I reversed it onto spares and got another year out of the back end of it.
The initial outlay is a bit of a sting but over 2 years it's probably less than I'd have spent on mono.
I've only ever put 150yds on my spools. I doubt many could chuck near that with thick braid anyway. Once it faded after a year I reversed it onto spares and got another year out of the back end of it.
The initial outlay is a bit of a sting but over 2 years it's probably less than I'd have spent on mono.