Is anyone still using birdfood baits? I used to use them all the time. Ive started rolling my own again and gone back to birdfoods.
Ive been using one receipe or a while now, slightly changing it to see if I can get it to roll better etc
However its not preformed aswell as I thought it would so doubts are starting to creep in....
The mix is roughly this
40% birdfood
30% 3 way semo / soya / supergold 60
7.5% lamblac
5% WPC35
5% PDF
2.5% either yeast of liver powder
5% wheatgerm
5% spices, minerals, vitamins etc
Liquids per kg
3ml scopex
30ml Active CSL
30 liquid liver
7.5ml regular sense appeal
Thoughts?
Is it worth removing some of the carbs and adding milk.proteins?
I generally only fish short sessions so im wanting more attraction than anything else. I vary boiling times per batch I do and do round and sausages to alter the leakage etc
Any other receipts I can compare mine against or thoughts would be appreciated
Ive been using one receipe or a while now, slightly changing it to see if I can get it to roll better etc
However its not preformed aswell as I thought it would so doubts are starting to creep in....
The mix is roughly this
40% birdfood
30% 3 way semo / soya / supergold 60
7.5% lamblac
5% WPC35
5% PDF
2.5% either yeast of liver powder
5% wheatgerm
5% spices, minerals, vitamins etc
Liquids per kg
3ml scopex
30ml Active CSL
30 liquid liver
7.5ml regular sense appeal
Thoughts?
Is it worth removing some of the carbs and adding milk.proteins?
I generally only fish short sessions so im wanting more attraction than anything else. I vary boiling times per batch I do and do round and sausages to alter the leakage etc
Any other receipts I can compare mine against or thoughts would be appreciated
In reply to Post #1
By not performing as well as you thought it would, do you mean from fish catching results or from a rolling perspective, ie not coming together or too sticky ?
By not performing as well as you thought it would, do you mean from fish catching results or from a rolling perspective, ie not coming together or too sticky ?
In reply to Post #2
The mix is quite sticky but I've just been leaving for 20-30 mins before rolling
Catch wise yes but then I guess its also hard to gauge so early in the season
The mix is quite sticky but I've just been leaving for 20-30 mins before rolling
Catch wise yes but then I guess its also hard to gauge so early in the season
In reply to Post #3
Yeah, I thought it could be a bit sticky. The soluble content at around 20 % is not excessive as such but with the inclusion of both Lamblac and WPC 35, the lactose content of these will both be contributing to the stickiness. Maybe replace the WPC 35 with WPC 80 and replace some or all of the Lamblac with semo. You'll lose the fat content by replacing the Lamblac ( and increase the protein ) but if the bird food is quite oily it should be fine . Obviously, you could also add a little bit of oil if necessary..The gluten from the extra semo will also make things easier. Do a little test batch to see it that helps. As for the fish catching, that's for the fish to decide. Like you say ,it's early days yet.
Yeah, I thought it could be a bit sticky. The soluble content at around 20 % is not excessive as such but with the inclusion of both Lamblac and WPC 35, the lactose content of these will both be contributing to the stickiness. Maybe replace the WPC 35 with WPC 80 and replace some or all of the Lamblac with semo. You'll lose the fat content by replacing the Lamblac ( and increase the protein ) but if the bird food is quite oily it should be fine . Obviously, you could also add a little bit of oil if necessary..The gluten from the extra semo will also make things easier. Do a little test batch to see it that helps. As for the fish catching, that's for the fish to decide. Like you say ,it's early days yet.
In reply to Post #1
The make up looks very simular to the old Nutrabaits Enervite mix. Can't remember if Enervite had Robin Red in it, or just a spice mix?
The make up looks very simular to the old Nutrabaits Enervite mix. Can't remember if Enervite had Robin Red in it, or just a spice mix?
In reply to Post #5
From Nutrabaits website:
Robin Red, high level Liver Extract, Mixed Spices and Yeasts.
From Nutrabaits website:
Robin Red, high level Liver Extract, Mixed Spices and Yeasts.
In reply to Post #5
It contained robin red and a spice mix
It contained robin red and a spice mix
In reply to Post #5
Myself and forum member Saggybelly (Dean?) came up with a mix based on Enervite but I never got the chance to try it out -
25% SOYA FLOUR
20% WHOLEMEAL SEMOLINA
20% SLUIS UNIVERSAL, LATER CHANGED TO SOFTBILL
10% SODIUM CASEINATE
10% ROBIN RED
5% BREWERS YEAST
4% MIXED SPICES
3% EQUIVITE
3% LIVER POWDER
Myself and forum member Saggybelly (Dean?) came up with a mix based on Enervite but I never got the chance to try it out -
25% SOYA FLOUR
20% WHOLEMEAL SEMOLINA
20% SLUIS UNIVERSAL, LATER CHANGED TO SOFTBILL
10% SODIUM CASEINATE
10% ROBIN RED
5% BREWERS YEAST
4% MIXED SPICES
3% EQUIVITE
3% LIVER POWDER
In reply to Post #1
I've found bird seed mixes to work all year round and as they're out of fashion I think they're massively underrated.
In winter they've out fished everything I've tried.
PS - Don't tell anyone.
I've found bird seed mixes to work all year round and as they're out of fashion I think they're massively underrated.
In winter they've out fished everything I've tried.
PS - Don't tell anyone.
In reply to Post #9
Many thanks for the replies
If I reduce the lamblac and remove the wpc35 and increase the yeast and mixed spice content to increase the taste it should still roll well shouldn't it?
Many thanks for the replies
If I reduce the lamblac and remove the wpc35 and increase the yeast and mixed spice content to increase the taste it should still roll well shouldn't it?
In reply to Post #10
Personally think you need more in the way of binders. Adding more yeast (and to a lesser extent spices) will only increase solubility. Don't think you need the pdf either.
Personally think you need more in the way of binders. Adding more yeast (and to a lesser extent spices) will only increase solubility. Don't think you need the pdf either.
In reply to Post #3
The mix is quite sticky but I've just been leaving for 20-30 mins before rolling
I've had similar issues with WPC/ LamLac combo, figured it was the lactose.
How I miss Vitamealo..
Made a kitchen sink and all birdfood for this winter/spring, tried 3 flavours and plain.
I was going to make a spicy red/orange mix with Malay spice and SSA but I ran out of calor gas and wasn't going to cook that one up in the kitchen.
Caught all combos.
However kinda feel like I cheated because the top catcher used 10ml of cell activator.
Still had half a dozen carp ripping up the bottom in 3ft of water on the first sunny day, caught two and ran out of bait.
25% yellow egg biscuit
10% acid caesin
10% 50/50 WPC35 Lamlac
35% Semo/supergold/ maize meal/maize flour
15% tigernut & hemp powder
30g soya isolate (instead of Trusoy but ended up adding 30g anyway)
25g liver
25g brocacel
25g CSL powder
20ml crisp & dry
only required 375g liquid but retained 100% of paste weight when cooled.
Added 15ml liquid CSL to the bag before freezing, same again when thawed.
The mix is quite sticky but I've just been leaving for 20-30 mins before rolling
I've had similar issues with WPC/ LamLac combo, figured it was the lactose.
How I miss Vitamealo..
Made a kitchen sink and all birdfood for this winter/spring, tried 3 flavours and plain.
I was going to make a spicy red/orange mix with Malay spice and SSA but I ran out of calor gas and wasn't going to cook that one up in the kitchen.
Caught all combos.
However kinda feel like I cheated because the top catcher used 10ml of cell activator.
Still had half a dozen carp ripping up the bottom in 3ft of water on the first sunny day, caught two and ran out of bait.
25% yellow egg biscuit
10% acid caesin
10% 50/50 WPC35 Lamlac
35% Semo/supergold/ maize meal/maize flour
15% tigernut & hemp powder
30g soya isolate (instead of Trusoy but ended up adding 30g anyway)
25g liver
25g brocacel
25g CSL powder
20ml crisp & dry
only required 375g liquid but retained 100% of paste weight when cooled.
Added 15ml liquid CSL to the bag before freezing, same again when thawed.
In reply to Post #11
I that case it would make sense to remove the WPC,remove the lamblac to 5% and increase one of the binders like semo or maize protein?
I that case it would make sense to remove the WPC,remove the lamblac to 5% and increase one of the binders like semo or maize protein?
In reply to Post #13
Mmm, maybe revisit post number 4 😆
Mmm, maybe revisit post number 4 😆
In reply to Post #13
considering we're trying to maximise soluable attraction and aren't too fussed if the bait won't last 24 hours on the hair...I don't think we're going to get away with a non-sticky mix.
Making it more manageable and not having to clean the table between guns..would be nice.
So yeah, up the cereals or make a working cereal mix and then add the soluable attractors.
Quite often once the adding and tweaking is done the 'kilo' mix is 1.1kg meaning percentages of solubales are lower.
The choices aren't great, Lamlac, Calflac unless you want to chase down 5-10kg sacks of milk replacers. Hard to find details on some of the European and piglet milks.
Nukamel rings a bell.
I'd almost given up and was looking for decent prices on Coffeemate
considering we're trying to maximise soluable attraction and aren't too fussed if the bait won't last 24 hours on the hair...I don't think we're going to get away with a non-sticky mix.
Making it more manageable and not having to clean the table between guns..would be nice.
So yeah, up the cereals or make a working cereal mix and then add the soluable attractors.
Quite often once the adding and tweaking is done the 'kilo' mix is 1.1kg meaning percentages of solubales are lower.
The choices aren't great, Lamlac, Calflac unless you want to chase down 5-10kg sacks of milk replacers. Hard to find details on some of the European and piglet milks.
Nukamel rings a bell.
I'd almost given up and was looking for decent prices on Coffeemate