Hi,
Is there any reason why it would not be possible to ferment prepared particle?
Keen to give fermented particles a try and wondered about buying prepared particles and then fermenting them. Has anyone tried this approach and what were the results?
Time , space etc would make purchasing the prepared particle first a more efficient process
cheers
Neil.
Is there any reason why it would not be possible to ferment prepared particle?
Keen to give fermented particles a try and wondered about buying prepared particles and then fermenting them. Has anyone tried this approach and what were the results?
Time , space etc would make purchasing the prepared particle first a more efficient process
cheers
Neil.
In reply to Post #1
As long as it's not had anything added to stabilise it, ie, salt or other preservative, then there's no reason you can't ferment it.
Fermenting, you can just leave them open to the environment to pick up natural yeasts though there is a risk of bacteria getting a head start, or you could use a brewers or bakers yeast, even giving that a 'head start' by reconning in some warm water first, lots of options
As long as it's not had anything added to stabilise it, ie, salt or other preservative, then there's no reason you can't ferment it.
Fermenting, you can just leave them open to the environment to pick up natural yeasts though there is a risk of bacteria getting a head start, or you could use a brewers or bakers yeast, even giving that a 'head start' by reconning in some warm water first, lots of options
In reply to Post #2
Cool, thanks for the help. I think I shall give this a whirl
cheers
Neil.
Cool, thanks for the help. I think I shall give this a whirl
cheers
Neil.
In reply to Post #3
Might be of interest, I never tried this in particles but thought about it. If you look up diacetyl you'll find it's often associated with Scopex flavour, as sort of burnt butter/toffee. It can be encouraged by higher fermet temps and both bactieria and yeast produce it.
I also used to wonder about differing alcohols and whether they'd be attractive to Carp in themselves, you can produce different types of alcohols by using different ferment temps. Again, something I never got round to, but I was interested also from a pov of ester production, esters being common flavour compounds and we all know how much carp appear to be attracted by them.
A big rabbit hole you can go down if so inclined
Might be of interest, I never tried this in particles but thought about it. If you look up diacetyl you'll find it's often associated with Scopex flavour, as sort of burnt butter/toffee. It can be encouraged by higher fermet temps and both bactieria and yeast produce it.
I also used to wonder about differing alcohols and whether they'd be attractive to Carp in themselves, you can produce different types of alcohols by using different ferment temps. Again, something I never got round to, but I was interested also from a pov of ester production, esters being common flavour compounds and we all know how much carp appear to be attracted by them.
A big rabbit hole you can go down if so inclined
In reply to Post #1
If you look up the youtube channel Bait Tactics he's done a video showing you how to make your own lacto serum. This can be used as a fermentation starter. You could try putting some of this in to start the ferment
If you look up the youtube channel Bait Tactics he's done a video showing you how to make your own lacto serum. This can be used as a fermentation starter. You could try putting some of this in to start the ferment
In reply to Post #1
As vossy said, it depends on whether they've been stabilised or not. The stuff that comes in sealed tins / jars like Nash & Dynamite will be ok to go as they are cooked fresh & sealed.
You may want to add some sugars to get the bugs working.
As vossy said, it depends on whether they've been stabilised or not. The stuff that comes in sealed tins / jars like Nash & Dynamite will be ok to go as they are cooked fresh & sealed.
You may want to add some sugars to get the bugs working.
In reply to Post #5
Great channel. Love his music too - lol
Great channel. Love his music too - lol
In reply to Post #5
very interesting thank you, I'll make some but but feels like I'm on the edge of a precipice, I just want to go fishing
very interesting thank you, I'll make some but but feels like I'm on the edge of a precipice, I just want to go fishing
In reply to Post #6
Theres a particle prep company not too far from me so I can collect freshly prepared so no shelf life additives used.
Theres a particle prep company not too far from me so I can collect freshly prepared so no shelf life additives used.
Just on a re read and it occurred to me, typical me I've approached this from a yeast perspective whereas you might be talking bacterial, or both!
I'm not sure how far you want to go down the 'rabbit hole' but if you wanted to speed the process up you could use a enzyme to break down the majority starch into simpler sugars. Unless you were setting up for a specific ferment you'll get a mixed ferment anyway but you could favour one side heavily by choice, ie, adding a specific bacteria or yeast.
I'm not sure how far you want to go down the 'rabbit hole' but if you wanted to speed the process up you could use a enzyme to break down the majority starch into simpler sugars. Unless you were setting up for a specific ferment you'll get a mixed ferment anyway but you could favour one side heavily by choice, ie, adding a specific bacteria or yeast.
Just in addition to what I said about the home made ferment starter. If you wanted to simplify the process you could just go and buy some EM1 liquid. Just put a few ml of that into your particles to start it fermenting. Not sure how well it will work on prepped particle though. I've seen people do it with dry cut maize without even cooking it. Can Be left for months, probably years if kept submerged. Because the insides of the maize are already exposed they soften pretty quickly
In reply to Post #1
As said, as long as no preservatives have been added you will be ok.
Id steer away from adding yeasts as you will end up turning the bait to fast if you are only just starting. Id buy your prepared particle fresh... stick it in a big bucket, with plenty of room left over, in the garden with as much of the liquid as possible, top up liquid to cover it and add 10% of the weigh of particle of sugar, glucose or something similar. Leave it open for a few hours and stir every 30mins, then bang on the lid and let it sit for a few days ideally in a sunny spot in the garden - keep checking it a few times a day and once the lid is bulging open and check.
A extremely rough guide (subject to opinion)
Fizzy/ yeasty smell = Fermentation
Vinegar smell = too far gone
Total alternate way to do it...... search for garlic hemp recipe on here
As said, as long as no preservatives have been added you will be ok.
Id steer away from adding yeasts as you will end up turning the bait to fast if you are only just starting. Id buy your prepared particle fresh... stick it in a big bucket, with plenty of room left over, in the garden with as much of the liquid as possible, top up liquid to cover it and add 10% of the weigh of particle of sugar, glucose or something similar. Leave it open for a few hours and stir every 30mins, then bang on the lid and let it sit for a few days ideally in a sunny spot in the garden - keep checking it a few times a day and once the lid is bulging open and check.
A extremely rough guide (subject to opinion)
Fizzy/ yeasty smell = Fermentation
Vinegar smell = too far gone
Total alternate way to do it...... search for garlic hemp recipe on here
In reply to Post #13
Would a large brewers bucket with a Brewing Airlock (bubbler) work?
Also how long would the particles last in airtight bucket without freezing.
Would a large brewers bucket with a Brewing Airlock (bubbler) work?
Also how long would the particles last in airtight bucket without freezing.
In reply to Post #14
It would be perfect and would stop the lid blowing off.
For me I would introduce a big hit of salt if I wanted to extend the shelf life... I'm talking 20% of the total weight. This in essence would change the PH enough stabilize it for a while
Huge amount of variable's - Which particles, how broken down are the sugars, what and how much yeast gets introduced, temps, available oxygen etc etc. As said all trial and error till you get something that works for you.
I have worked with yeasts for a good few years now and even in the food and drink industry it hard to control and get same results
It would be perfect and would stop the lid blowing off.
For me I would introduce a big hit of salt if I wanted to extend the shelf life... I'm talking 20% of the total weight. This in essence would change the PH enough stabilize it for a while
Huge amount of variable's - Which particles, how broken down are the sugars, what and how much yeast gets introduced, temps, available oxygen etc etc. As said all trial and error till you get something that works for you.
I have worked with yeasts for a good few years now and even in the food and drink industry it hard to control and get same results
In reply to Post #15
Thankyou for your valuable information, I'm going to get some tigers and maize soaking when i finish work
Thankyou for your valuable information, I'm going to get some tigers and maize soaking when i finish work