Hi all, sorry for the length of this post, but the information is all relevant. I am a seasoned angler of 40 years plus and have enjoyed all types of fishing in this time. I am predominantly a carp angler and have fine tuned my tactics over the years, both with ideas of my own and information gleaned from the famous and those not so famous, from books, magazines internet etc. etc. I'm not gonna boast, but the main method I use catches me a hell of a lot of fish when others around me seem to struggle. However, I have come up against a problem, which is the result of the method that I use, and although I'm catching a lot of carp I need to change things. The problem is, that the fish I'm catching seem to be suffering mouth damage in the scissors section of the mouth - sometimes on one side, sometimes on both. I have been using propolis on the damage and carp disinfectant where appropriate, but I'm not prepared to carry on with the damage that I'm seeing. I fish all types of lakes and catch all sizes of carp. So, I'm using 10ft 3lb test curve rods, 16lb fluorocarbon mainline, 2 blobs (about the size of a large pea) of heavy metal putty on the mainline about 8 inches and then 16 inches above an 18 inch length of anti tangle tubing (to protect the carps flanks), anti tangle tubing plugs into a tail rubber which attaches to an inline pear lead (3oz or 4oz). I have my rods on alarms, with heavyish bobbins that register the bite quickly, and have my lines reasonably tight, but not bow string tight, as I like to have the line resting on the bottom about 4 feet from my lead. I have my rod butts sometimes on the floor (due to rock hard banks and not wanting to smash banksticks in - scaring all the carp away and naffing off every angler in the vicinity) and sometimes in a butt holder of some description. I fish big pit reels with baitrunners, with the baitrunner clutch set anywhere from no give ( if anywhere near bushes, reeds et) to fairly loose if in open water. My mainline is then threaded through the anti tangle tubing etc and attached to my rig via a 6 turn full blood knot to a size 8 swivel that plugs into the lead. My rig consists of a size 6 or 8 wide gape micro barbed hook or similar sharpened variety, tied onto soft 20lb braid (varying between 4 inches and 6 inches) via a 4 turn grinner knot. The braid is then tied to the size 8 swivel via the same knot. Both knots have a blob of rig glue applied. I whip a hair onto the hook using fine sewing thread material, and the hair leaves the hook opposite the hook point. The whipping uses a small blob of rig glue. I then have a one inch piece of shrink tubing which covers the hair whipping and the hook knot and extends the length of hook by about 1 cm in a gentle curve (line aligner style). I solely use PVA bags, which contain my lead and rig, which are separated by 2/3 the length of the rig that I am using. The bag is filled with pellets, boiles and various powders / groundbait and other goodies that the carp find attractive. Due to the effectiveness of my rig and boilie attachment, coupled with the PVA bag, most of my catches are nailed in the bottom of the mouth somewhere and rarely come out - in fact I only lose one or two fish in every hundred runs. The hook holds sometimes can be seen to have moved a bit initially, but this results in only small scratches or tears, which can easily heal with the aid of the carp care products that I use. I don't play the fish hard and don't drag them out of snags or reeds etc, although I will put some pressure on them to keep them out of said snags or reeds etc so that they don't damage themselves or get snarled up in their bid for freedom. I use a 42 inch landing net which I use to carry them to the unhooking mat, making sure that the line from the rod tip to the rig has slack line so that it doesn't pull on the fish whilst being transported. I am very proficient at unhooking them once on the bank and the hooks are removed with relative ease and no excessive damage. So, as I said at the beginning, I am catching a hell of a lot of carp with my methods (not gonna give my hook baits or bag mix away, as to be honest these are probably my biggest edge) but the mouth damage in the scissors is not acceptable to me, so something has to change. All thoughts welcome and feel free to ask questions and give helpful opinions. Tight lines to you all and thanks in advance 🙂👍🏻
In reply to Post #1
Whilst I have no experience in this reading the article below by Jason Hayward it seems (to me) a mono frigtener like Frank Warwick publicised a long while ago may help as you seem to be fishing so effectively that they don't realise they've been hooked
Whilst I have no experience in this reading the article below by Jason Hayward it seems (to me) a mono frigtener like Frank Warwick publicised a long while ago may help as you seem to be fishing so effectively that they don't realise they've been hooked
In reply to Post #3
frigtener ???
frigtener ???
In reply to Post #1
Is the 20lb braid hooklink a purpose made hooklink braid?
Either way check the diameter - Hooklink braids tend to be thicker in diameter so as not to cut into the the fish's mouth. If might be that whatever you are using is too thin.
Only other thing I can suggest is if you're not dropping the lead, is the lead bouncing around during the fight perhaps? Might be worth dropping the lead as an experiment to see if it changes things.
Is the 20lb braid hooklink a purpose made hooklink braid?
Either way check the diameter - Hooklink braids tend to be thicker in diameter so as not to cut into the the fish's mouth. If might be that whatever you are using is too thin.
Only other thing I can suggest is if you're not dropping the lead, is the lead bouncing around during the fight perhaps? Might be worth dropping the lead as an experiment to see if it changes things.
Also, try to unhook in the net if possible (quick change swivels good for this if you cannot physically remove the hook from the fish whilst in the water), and even better if you can get the fish into a sling to move it with the rod taken out of the equation.
In reply to Post #1
You're using a bolt rig and heavy leads, are you fishing in silt?
Sounds to me like the fish are turning to the left or right to be hooked in the scissors and not levelling up. What bait are you using?
Try using a lighter lead and longer hooklink but then you contradict what you are saying by, they are mostly hooked in the bottom lip?
Are you using the twig
You're using a bolt rig and heavy leads, are you fishing in silt?
Sounds to me like the fish are turning to the left or right to be hooked in the scissors and not levelling up. What bait are you using?
Try using a lighter lead and longer hooklink but then you contradict what you are saying by, they are mostly hooked in the bottom lip?
Are you using the twig
In reply to Post #5
Yes, it is a purpose made supple braid hooklink material, made by one of the biggest carp Kompanies out there. I would assume that the Kompany that makes it are well aware of the dangers of supple braid and would hope that this is reflected in the diameter.
It's a good idea to give the dropping the lead a go as an experiment, but can't see it as a long term solution, as it could cost up to £70 a week in leads. It would also mean there could be upwards of 400 leads a year discarded on the lake bed ...
Yes, it is a purpose made supple braid hooklink material, made by one of the biggest carp Kompanies out there. I would assume that the Kompany that makes it are well aware of the dangers of supple braid and would hope that this is reflected in the diameter.
It's a good idea to give the dropping the lead a go as an experiment, but can't see it as a long term solution, as it could cost up to £70 a week in leads. It would also mean there could be upwards of 400 leads a year discarded on the lake bed ...
In reply to Post #8
Not sure how much you're paying for your leads, but even an expensive one at £2 means you're catching 35+ fish a week - are you sure it's you that's doing the damage?
Not sure how much you're paying for your leads, but even an expensive one at £2 means you're catching 35+ fish a week - are you sure it's you that's doing the damage?
In reply to Post #7
Sometimes I fish in silt, but the PVA bag usually sits on the top as I use quite a lot of buoyant baits in my mix, to give a fizzing / rising effect.
The fish are not usually hooked in the scissors (although they are sometimes), but most often they are hooked plum in the bottom lip. I'm using bottom bait boilies as hookbaits.
I'll give the lighter leads a go, but the whole point of the heavy leads is to drive the hook home once the carp has picked it up and it has got some sort of hold (maybe I should contact Frank Warwick, as he is always going on about 4oz and 5oz leads for this very reason)
Sometimes I fish in silt, but the PVA bag usually sits on the top as I use quite a lot of buoyant baits in my mix, to give a fizzing / rising effect.
The fish are not usually hooked in the scissors (although they are sometimes), but most often they are hooked plum in the bottom lip. I'm using bottom bait boilies as hookbaits.
I'll give the lighter leads a go, but the whole point of the heavy leads is to drive the hook home once the carp has picked it up and it has got some sort of hold (maybe I should contact Frank Warwick, as he is always going on about 4oz and 5oz leads for this very reason)
In reply to Post #6
Thanks, I'll try this and see if it makes any difference. To be honest I don't mind cutting through the line or hooklink, as I usually bin a rig after I've caught one anyway, as these super sharp hooks blunt over pretty easily.
Thanks, I'll try this and see if it makes any difference. To be honest I don't mind cutting through the line or hooklink, as I usually bin a rig after I've caught one anyway, as these super sharp hooks blunt over pretty easily.
In reply to Post #9
The Kompany that makes the leads are on sale in my tackle shop for around £2.25. And you're right, as sometimes I can land 30 + fish in a week if I get everything right and the carp are on a good old munch up.
But as I said, I'm not sure what's causing it, as I'm not doing anything out of the ordinary, but I put all the tiny percentages together and it seems to work. Maybe I'm just highlighting an issue that many carp anglers are faced with, but they just don't say anything and move on. I have noticed that lots of photographs of carp in the magazines and on the net tend to have the head / mouth facing slightly away from the camera ... maybe for this very reason ???
Maybe I'll have to get on to some rock hard waters just to cut down on costs dump all the leads and cut the hooklimks in the landing net ££££££
The Kompany that makes the leads are on sale in my tackle shop for around £2.25. And you're right, as sometimes I can land 30 + fish in a week if I get everything right and the carp are on a good old munch up.
But as I said, I'm not sure what's causing it, as I'm not doing anything out of the ordinary, but I put all the tiny percentages together and it seems to work. Maybe I'm just highlighting an issue that many carp anglers are faced with, but they just don't say anything and move on. I have noticed that lots of photographs of carp in the magazines and on the net tend to have the head / mouth facing slightly away from the camera ... maybe for this very reason ???
Maybe I'll have to get on to some rock hard waters just to cut down on costs
dump all the leads and cut the hooklimks in the landing net ££££££
In reply to Post #10
My point is, it is probably buried in the silt causing more resistance and potential mouth damage. I know a couple of very silty waters around me and as a consequence a lot of the carp have the sides of their mouths missing, poor show really and not something we should be doing
My point is, it is probably buried in the silt causing more resistance and potential mouth damage. I know a couple of very silty waters around me and as a consequence a lot of the carp have the sides of their mouths missing, poor show really and not something we should be doing
I have been thinking about this some more, maybe a short length of shrink tube in a line aligner style may help to stop any braid/fluorocarbon cutting into the mouth if the damage is close to the hook hold.
In reply to Post #2
Thanks, from what I can glean from his article this would mean dropping hooklinks down to 2 or 3 inches, as I'm already using hooklinks of 4 inches for 50 % of the time. Also, my hookholds are usually in the bottom lip (although sometimes they can be in the scissors), and the hookhold usually stays firm and doesn't move or slip, so the scissors aren't ripping due to poor hookholds.
I don't really want to reduce my catching potential, as I like a bend in my rod, but there is something happening that is causing damage to the sides/ scissors of the mouths and so I need to fathom out the cause and change this particular part of my method.
So far, dropping the lead as an experiment is a good idea, as this allows me to fish exactly the same method up until the hook has taken hold and hence would not affect my catch rates.
Thanks, from what I can glean from his article this would mean dropping hooklinks down to 2 or 3 inches, as I'm already using hooklinks of 4 inches for 50 % of the time. Also, my hookholds are usually in the bottom lip (although sometimes they can be in the scissors), and the hookhold usually stays firm and doesn't move or slip, so the scissors aren't ripping due to poor hookholds.
I don't really want to reduce my catching potential, as I like a bend in my rod, but there is something happening that is causing damage to the sides/ scissors of the mouths and so I need to fathom out the cause and change this particular part of my method.
So far, dropping the lead as an experiment is a good idea, as this allows me to fish exactly the same method up until the hook has taken hold and hence would not affect my catch rates.