Personally I think that we give the carp way too much credit , what's everyone's take on the above.
In reply to Post #1
Except the ones that don't get caught.
Except the ones that don't get caught.
In reply to Post #1
I think we give carp anglers way too much credit....
The fish are Just doing what comes naturally - hungry... Finds food... Eats food
I think we give carp anglers way too much credit....
The fish are Just doing what comes naturally - hungry... Finds food... Eats food
In reply to Post #1
Give um a Rubiks Cube and they'll be knackred, yes, but things like knowing you're there, totally aware of their surroundings, acutely aware of fly hatches etc, they're kings of their environment. Take Dave Lanes tale of when he was up a tree at Horton and a fish must have spied him up a tree or sussed out something wasn't quite right and spooked another fish that was in a hole in the weed where Dave was about to cast a bait to hole in the weed fish..not so stupid.
I've witnessed some freaky fish behaviour and come to the conclusion that they're certainly not stupid. Someone I know tried to revive the Black Mirror when it was on its last legs and had another fish trying to nudge it out of the shallow water where it was rolling over in the edge; what's that all about?
Give um a Rubiks Cube and they'll be knackred, yes, but things like knowing you're there, totally aware of their surroundings, acutely aware of fly hatches etc, they're kings of their environment. Take Dave Lanes tale of when he was up a tree at Horton and a fish must have spied him up a tree or sussed out something wasn't quite right and spooked another fish that was in a hole in the weed where Dave was about to cast a bait to hole in the weed fish..not so stupid.
I've witnessed some freaky fish behaviour and come to the conclusion that they're certainly not stupid. Someone I know tried to revive the Black Mirror when it was on its last legs and had another fish trying to nudge it out of the shallow water where it was rolling over in the edge; what's that all about?
As I have always said, change the stocking levels and reverse the quantities, pack a water with carp and just a very low stocking of "Silvers" etc, and see how hard it is to catch a "Silver"!!!
In reply to Post #1
I think it depends on the type of water they are in.
A small population of fully naturalised carp in a mature pit (or river) full of natural food with lots of features and cover and little angling pressure can be hard to find, hard to approach and as a result hard to catch. Not because they are clever but they are absolutely tuned to their environment and instinctively use all the protection and advantages it gives them. Their senses evolved over millions of years are perfectly developed to enable them to survive in that type of environment. And they DON'T HAVE TO EAT anglers baits.
Fish a purpose developed commercial water and it is very different. Ridiculously high stocking levels, little or no natural food, no cover, constant pressure pretty much everywhere on the fishery, 24/7 disturbance, light, movement, noise, leads, bait boats and vehicles.these are fish that cannot behave naturally and have had their ace cards removed. They have no refuge, they are constantly on the move and are hungry and they HAVE TO EAT anglers bait and so become much, much easier to catch. On these kind of waters anglers take way too much credit for catching fish that are set up.
I think it depends on the type of water they are in.
A small population of fully naturalised carp in a mature pit (or river) full of natural food with lots of features and cover and little angling pressure can be hard to find, hard to approach and as a result hard to catch. Not because they are clever but they are absolutely tuned to their environment and instinctively use all the protection and advantages it gives them. Their senses evolved over millions of years are perfectly developed to enable them to survive in that type of environment. And they DON'T HAVE TO EAT anglers baits.
Fish a purpose developed commercial water and it is very different. Ridiculously high stocking levels, little or no natural food, no cover, constant pressure pretty much everywhere on the fishery, 24/7 disturbance, light, movement, noise, leads, bait boats and vehicles.these are fish that cannot behave naturally and have had their ace cards removed. They have no refuge, they are constantly on the move and are hungry and they HAVE TO EAT anglers bait and so become much, much easier to catch. On these kind of waters anglers take way too much credit for catching fish that are set up.
In reply to Post #6
Pretty much same as I was going write.
Proper Natural Waters where there is zero reliance on anglers bait can be very difficult to fish.
Were as over-stocked commercial waters or instant waters dug in some farmers field, were no natural food has had the chance to establish itself with time, capture is pretty much inevitable – the fish have no other option than to eat Anglers bait.
Pretty much same as I was going write.
Proper Natural Waters where there is zero reliance on anglers bait can be very difficult to fish.
Were as over-stocked commercial waters or instant waters dug in some farmers field, were no natural food has had the chance to establish itself with time, capture is pretty much inevitable – the fish have no other option than to eat Anglers bait.
In reply to Post #7
In reply to Post #8
But there is a now a all too common third scenario to add – Predation, any water being regularly visited by marauding Otters will become automatically very hard to fish naturally.
It does make me wonder just how many “Difficult Waters” are actually being fished for “Ghost Fish” that just simply do not exist anymore.
I won't even fish a none fenced water anymore, other than the natural streams and rivers on the Fly for the wild Trout.
But there is a now a all too common third scenario to add – Predation, any water being regularly visited by marauding Otters will become automatically very hard to fish naturally.
It does make me wonder just how many “Difficult Waters” are actually being fished for “Ghost Fish” that just simply do not exist anymore.
I won't even fish a none fenced water anymore, other than the natural streams and rivers on the Fly for the wild Trout.
In reply to Post #9
Not going to argue with you on otters or predation in general. It is a huge subject and has its own threads on the forum but it has little or nothing to do with angling techniques or fish behaviour. If anglers are fishing lakes with no fish in them they are ignoring angling rule 1: Make sure the water you are fishing contains the fish you want to catch.
Not going to argue with you on otters or predation in general. It is a huge subject and has its own threads on the forum but it has little or nothing to do with angling techniques or fish behaviour. If anglers are fishing lakes with no fish in them they are ignoring angling rule 1: Make sure the water you are fishing contains the fish you want to catch.
In reply to Post #6
I fish in waters here (North Carolina in the US) that receive minimal carp fishing pressure in UK Commercial terms.
They also have zero dependency on bait.
Despite that, we have seen clear trends for carp to progressively avoid the ( few) bank access areas that we can fish from, even after just a season of pressure.
I started to use the boat to reach new areas on these lakes (100 acres up to thousands) and it clearly showed that the carp were easier to find and catch in spots that had received no line pressure. After a few months, those spot started to dry up, and the fish moved on to another unbothered area..
And failing getting naive fish to eat boilies....... I have lots of stories about that!
Tigers and corn all the way here...
I fish in waters here (North Carolina in the US) that receive minimal carp fishing pressure in UK Commercial terms.
They also have zero dependency on bait.
Despite that, we have seen clear trends for carp to progressively avoid the ( few) bank access areas that we can fish from, even after just a season of pressure.
I started to use the boat to reach new areas on these lakes (100 acres up to thousands) and it clearly showed that the carp were easier to find and catch in spots that had received no line pressure. After a few months, those spot started to dry up, and the fish moved on to another unbothered area..
And failing getting naive fish to eat boilies....... I have lots of stories about that!
Tigers and corn all the way here...
In reply to Post #10
Otters visiting a lake can make a big difference to the carps behaviour - there will be areas of the lake they start to avoid if they feel at risk, and they will generally be on high alert, often meaning they are less inclined to feed freely.
Otters visiting a lake can make a big difference to the carps behaviour - there will be areas of the lake they start to avoid if they feel at risk, and they will generally be on high alert, often meaning they are less inclined to feed freely.
In reply to Post #12
This could be a really interesting thread. Unfortunately it is at risk of being hijacked by the otter lobby.
This could be a really interesting thread. Unfortunately it is at risk of being hijacked by the otter lobby.
In reply to Post #13
There's a bloke on my place who is convinced that the reason one of the other guys hadn't has anything in over 100 nights is because the bloke is using braid on a tight line, I'm not convinced of they at all, I err on the side of if they can't see it in the daytime, line Fluorocarbon for instance, they're more likely to spook, if they can see it, they'll just happily swim around it and not panic. All of this I'm talking about is on a very low stocked water, things change on smaller water with fish under pressure and seeing their mates get hooked and goes through the ceiling.
Something I observed years back was on a highly pressured water and their reaction to bright hook baits, really illuminating to say the least.
There's a bloke on my place who is convinced that the reason one of the other guys hadn't has anything in over 100 nights is because the bloke is using braid on a tight line, I'm not convinced of they at all, I err on the side of if they can't see it in the daytime, line Fluorocarbon for instance, they're more likely to spook, if they can see it, they'll just happily swim around it and not panic. All of this I'm talking about is on a very low stocked water, things change on smaller water with fish under pressure and seeing their mates get hooked and goes through the ceiling.
Something I observed years back was on a highly pressured water and their reaction to bright hook baits, really illuminating to say the least.
In reply to Post #12
Otters visiting a lake definitely can change the carps behaviour, I've seen it myself, a lake that regularly had fish visiting and feeding in the margins changed to fish scooting around the margins not daring to stop and feed. I've also heard of it having the reverse effect once a lake is fenced , the fish suddenly appear back in the
margins and start behaving as they did before the otters moved in !
Otters visiting a lake definitely can change the carps behaviour, I've seen it myself, a lake that regularly had fish visiting and feeding in the margins changed to fish scooting around the margins not daring to stop and feed. I've also heard of it having the reverse effect once a lake is fenced , the fish suddenly appear back in the
margins and start behaving as they did before the otters moved in !