Its caught me out this year. Autumn is the time I find them in the deepest water, winter they are at half depth. The current high temperatures and the much warmer Sept and Oct lead me to think they would still.be in the deep. They are not, but already at mid depth. Temperatures at the surface are still 10°c. Is the mid deep phenomenon relative to photoperiodism, and not temperature?
In reply to Post #1
I really wish it was that simple. Are you a politician?
I really wish it was that simple. Are you a politician?
In reply to Post #2
No, nor an Oceanographer.
No, nor an Oceanographer.
In reply to Post #3
OK. Photoperiodism, from this point on to be called PP as I can't be arsed to keep typing it.
PP is simply daylength and is a very accurate natural calendar. The length of any day, measured from sunrise to sunset this year will be the same as on that day 1 year, 10 years, 1000 years or 1000,000 years ago. Animal and plant behaviour has evolved to respond to this. It doesn't usually have short term effects but triggers major events and behaviours.
In fish for instance it is the trigger for migration, spawning and dormancy in many species including carp. It is unlikely that carp are responding to PP by sitting in mid water.
OK. Photoperiodism, from this point on to be called PP as I can't be arsed to keep typing it.
PP is simply daylength and is a very accurate natural calendar. The length of any day, measured from sunrise to sunset this year will be the same as on that day 1 year, 10 years, 1000 years or 1000,000 years ago. Animal and plant behaviour has evolved to respond to this. It doesn't usually have short term effects but triggers major events and behaviours.
In fish for instance it is the trigger for migration, spawning and dormancy in many species including carp. It is unlikely that carp are responding to PP by sitting in mid water.
In reply to Post #1
I agree that they should still be on it based on temps but they're very clearly not (on the water I fish anyway). Imo PP is as good a suggestion as any as to why they've gone ziggy so early.
Or maybe it's the drop (in temps) itself rather than the temp it reaches i.e. a drop from 15 to 10 is as good as a drop from 10 to 7 in terms of getting them into their winter area.
I agree that they should still be on it based on temps but they're very clearly not (on the water I fish anyway). Imo PP is as good a suggestion as any as to why they've gone ziggy so early.
Or maybe it's the drop (in temps) itself rather than the temp it reaches i.e. a drop from 15 to 10 is as good as a drop from 10 to 7 in terms of getting them into their winter area.
In reply to Post #5
Interested to know why you think PP is as good a suggestion as any. Could be temperature, feeding in the thermocline layer, angling pressure, barometric pressure or a response to daily changes in light levels which is different to PP.
Interested to know why you think PP is as good a suggestion as any. Could be temperature, feeding in the thermocline layer, angling pressure, barometric pressure or a response to daily changes in light levels which is different to PP.
In reply to Post #6
All valid potentials mate. Although angling pressure is defo not influencing them on the water I fish. No one is fishing it lol. I dont buy that they're feeding mid water (habitualy anyway), no signs of hatches. But your potentials are each as good a suggestion as any. Until i observe some kind of evidence its guesswork for me.
All valid potentials mate. Although angling pressure is defo not influencing them on the water I fish. No one is fishing it lol. I dont buy that they're feeding mid water (habitualy anyway), no signs of hatches. But your potentials are each as good a suggestion as any. Until i observe some kind of evidence its guesswork for me.
In reply to Post #7
Me too. I'd call it educated guesswork.
Me too. I'd call it educated guesswork.
In reply to Post #8
I'd call it that too but sometimes I feel like I've learned nothing
I'd call it that too but sometimes I feel like I've learned nothing
In reply to Post #9
I think that is a lot more effective than thinking you've learnt everything.
I think that is a lot more effective than thinking you've learnt everything.
In reply to Post #10
I'm hedging my bets. One on the deck and one on a zig. Last week fish were crashing over me all night but couldn't buy a bite off the bottom.
Edit. Apart from 3 snotties
I'm hedging my bets. One on the deck and one on a zig. Last week fish were crashing over me all night but couldn't buy a bite off the bottom.
Edit. Apart from 3 snotties
In reply to Post #11
Been there done that Phil. I have tended to go to zigs after xmas but the last few years has made me wonder why exactly that is. Even established baiting campaigns have shut up shop in Nov. I was listening to the Cypography podcast and Elliot mentioned by the time he's noticed the same thing he's missed the boat i.e. its winter. Can completely relate to that.
Always next year I suppose
Been there done that Phil. I have tended to go to zigs after xmas but the last few years has made me wonder why exactly that is. Even established baiting campaigns have shut up shop in Nov. I was listening to the Cypography podcast and Elliot mentioned by the time he's noticed the same thing he's missed the boat i.e. its winter. Can completely relate to that.
Always next year I suppose
That first big temperature transition from summer/autumn to autumn/winter (ok, not quite yet) is the killer.
Once temps stabilise and air pressure drops then they should respond to some bait like normal piggies
Once temps stabilise and air pressure drops then they should respond to some bait like normal piggies
I wonder if the habits of carp are/have changed over the years as many waters have matured and weed growth has increased?
My water is very, very heavily tree lined and the fishing definitely gets harder after the leaves fall and sink to the bottom. On waters that are weedy it will be dying back and lying on the lakebed. Both will be lowering d.o. levels, which definitely affects feeding.
My water is very, very heavily tree lined and the fishing definitely gets harder after the leaves fall and sink to the bottom. On waters that are weedy it will be dying back and lying on the lakebed. Both will be lowering d.o. levels, which definitely affects feeding.
In reply to Post #14
My water is the same scenario with the leaves and has slowed right up. I might have to give Zigs a go next week, trouble is I've only dabbled with them before and have no faith in them, any encouragement anyone can give me would be greatly appreciated
My water is the same scenario with the leaves and has slowed right up. I might have to give Zigs a go next week, trouble is I've only dabbled with them before and have no faith in them, any encouragement anyone can give me would be greatly appreciated