I want to get back into rolling my own baits, but want to make them better for the carp.
At the moment I'm using a mix of
50% fish meal
25% Premium CLO
25% lambs milk
With salmon oil and hydro fish to add to the eggs.
I see most mixes have like 15+ ingredients, I'm wondering if you could make a hnv bait with less?
At the moment I'm using a mix of
50% fish meal
25% Premium CLO
25% lambs milk
With salmon oil and hydro fish to add to the eggs.
I see most mixes have like 15+ ingredients, I'm wondering if you could make a hnv bait with less?
In reply to Post #1
Hold firmly shut that wallet man, Power of clever marketing that is !
It's the Total opposite IMHO, less is more 👍
If you are using a good low temperature fishmeal like LT94, and CLO and lambs milk, and it covers all the FLAAs and nutritional requirements, I'd maybe add a little vitamin and minerals to it like, Selenavite E, and a bit of powwdered kelp, it rolls well enough and catches carp.
it is easier for you to order fresh ingredients, and store them, and use them quickly.
Why make bait more complicated than it needs to be ?
Hold firmly shut that wallet man, Power of clever marketing that is !
It's the Total opposite IMHO, less is more 👍
If you are using a good low temperature fishmeal like LT94, and CLO and lambs milk, and it covers all the FLAAs and nutritional requirements, I'd maybe add a little vitamin and minerals to it like, Selenavite E, and a bit of powwdered kelp, it rolls well enough and catches carp.
it is easier for you to order fresh ingredients, and store them, and use them quickly.
Why make bait more complicated than it needs to be ?
In reply to Post #1
I think as long as your bait covers all the carp's needs it's HNV. That means all the essential aminos (to aid digestion of protein etc.) and vitamins and minerals.
All the nutrition info is here: http://www.fao.org/fishery/affris/species-profiles/common-carp/nutritional-requirements/en/#:~:text=The%20daily%20requirement%20of%20common,%2Fkg%20body%20weight%2Fday.
There was a great series in Carpworld on HNV boilies. I'll try to find it later.
If you start with a 4:1 of LT-94 and PDFM you'll cover most aminos.
Edit - you also need some binder ingredients (semolina, soya etc. too). They help to "skin" the bait, and stop it breaking down too fast.
I guess the reason so many good quality baits have a large number of ingredients is like most diets - variety adds quality?
I am just getting back into all this myself though. There are members with decades of experience who will have forgotten more than i'll ever know
TBH I just bought some HNV base mix from AA baits and the fish were all over it...
I think as long as your bait covers all the carp's needs it's HNV. That means all the essential aminos (to aid digestion of protein etc.) and vitamins and minerals.
All the nutrition info is here: http://www.fao.org/fishery/affris/species-profiles/common-carp/nutritional-requirements/en/#:~:text=The%20daily%20requirement%20of%20common,%2Fkg%20body%20weight%2Fday.
There was a great series in Carpworld on HNV boilies. I'll try to find it later.
If you start with a 4:1 of LT-94 and PDFM you'll cover most aminos.
Edit - you also need some binder ingredients (semolina, soya etc. too). They help to "skin" the bait, and stop it breaking down too fast.
I guess the reason so many good quality baits have a large number of ingredients is like most diets - variety adds quality?
I am just getting back into all this myself though. There are members with decades of experience who will have forgotten more than i'll ever know
TBH I just bought some HNV base mix from AA baits and the fish were all over it...
In reply to Post #2
In reply to Post #1
For me, scaley has nailed it in his post. A balance of protein and lipids with enough cereal to hold it together and a nice bit of hydro will see you right. I've done the whole ingredients thing and tbh it's a bloody pain working out which one works with another and if you consider the cost, you could chuck in twice as much of your bait as a more complex one. Availability of a decent food source is king imo
For me, scaley has nailed it in his post. A balance of protein and lipids with enough cereal to hold it together and a nice bit of hydro will see you right. I've done the whole ingredients thing and tbh it's a bloody pain working out which one works with another and if you consider the cost, you could chuck in twice as much of your bait as a more complex one. Availability of a decent food source is king imo
In reply to Post #2
Brilliant mate thanks. I will get some kelp granules and selenivate e ordered. I get most of my bait stuff from baf British Aqua feeds
Brilliant mate thanks. I will get some kelp granules and selenivate e ordered. I get most of my bait stuff from baf British Aqua feeds
In reply to Post #3
That link is really useful mate thanks.
It doesn't roll too bad but could probably do with a little semo/soya. I don't mind the bait breaking down a little fast, i fish a water where I'm casting and putting out more bait every hour or two lol. Easy water with lots of stock lol.
That link is really useful mate thanks.
It doesn't roll too bad but could probably do with a little semo/soya. I don't mind the bait breaking down a little fast, i fish a water where I'm casting and putting out more bait every hour or two lol. Easy water with lots of stock lol.
In reply to Post #1
Nothing wrong with that bait at all. Based on the old Prem Fishbase really.
Nothing wrong with that bait at all. Based on the old Prem Fishbase really.
In reply to Post #2
Amen!
The bait listed in post 1 is a cracker and undoubtedly a lot better than some of the commercial available baits at present. A decent slug of a quality hydro and maybe some spices and you have a bait that will likely catch anywhere
Amen!
The bait listed in post 1 is a cracker and undoubtedly a lot better than some of the commercial available baits at present. A decent slug of a quality hydro and maybe some spices and you have a bait that will likely catch anywhere
In reply to Post #1
That bait is about 50% protein and 20% oil. The fish can't digest all this and will pass a lot through that could (ultimately) reduce water quality when it breaks down if a lot is put in.
Is it an HNV no (IMHO), it is to low in vitamins, minerals, carbs, fibre etc. The high oil content is not good for the fish.
Will it catch fish? Absolutely.
As already said adding Selenavite E (5-10/kg) would help a little.
You don't have to have a long list of stuff to make it better though. Kelp would be good (again as already mentioned) and nothing wrong at all in adding a bulk ingredient to reduce the others a bit i.e. semolina at 10-20% (adjust the levels if it will not roll). Semolina is made from Wheat, Wheat has a couple of compounds that carp are attracted to (any one used Hydro Wheat?)....so is semolina such a bad ingredient
I would drop the salmon oil, plenty of oils in the other 3 ingredients already.
You may find this quite a soft bait but if that works for you then great
That bait is about 50% protein and 20% oil. The fish can't digest all this and will pass a lot through that could (ultimately) reduce water quality when it breaks down if a lot is put in.
Is it an HNV no (IMHO), it is to low in vitamins, minerals, carbs, fibre etc. The high oil content is not good for the fish.
Will it catch fish? Absolutely.
As already said adding Selenavite E (5-10/kg) would help a little.
You don't have to have a long list of stuff to make it better though. Kelp would be good (again as already mentioned) and nothing wrong at all in adding a bulk ingredient to reduce the others a bit i.e. semolina at 10-20% (adjust the levels if it will not roll). Semolina is made from Wheat, Wheat has a couple of compounds that carp are attracted to (any one used Hydro Wheat?)....so is semolina such a bad ingredient
I would drop the salmon oil, plenty of oils in the other 3 ingredients already.
You may find this quite a soft bait but if that works for you then great
In reply to Post #10
Hi Smurf
That lake would have to be tiny and a huge level of bait needed before that became a problem. Think of the volume of bait some of these busy lakes get. Now 10 Uncle Jims on a small Lake doing the old heave Ho and i may agree, along with his 50kgs of salt to boot lol but then that too would not impact on any larger lake to any degree.( except the salt being cumulative in land locked bodies of water). Semolina is a great ingredient as is the calf milk. Those fish will utilise ANY abundant food source.
Is it a true HNV? No. However, it supplies enough goodies and those ingredients have been the staple base of many a successful carp bait for many years. Kelp is always a good addition. Cheap to boot.
Good luck.
Hi Smurf
That lake would have to be tiny and a huge level of bait needed before that became a problem. Think of the volume of bait some of these busy lakes get. Now 10 Uncle Jims on a small Lake doing the old heave Ho and i may agree, along with his 50kgs of salt to boot lol but then that too would not impact on any larger lake to any degree.( except the salt being cumulative in land locked bodies of water). Semolina is a great ingredient as is the calf milk. Those fish will utilise ANY abundant food source.
Is it a true HNV? No. However, it supplies enough goodies and those ingredients have been the staple base of many a successful carp bait for many years. Kelp is always a good addition. Cheap to boot.
Good luck.
In reply to Post #11
Agree this is not a true hnv bait. Protein alone does not make a hnv bait in my eyes
Agree this is not a true hnv bait. Protein alone does not make a hnv bait in my eyes
In reply to Post #12
Indeed, to me a HNV is in its name, Nutritional Value - what is good for its quarry and the fact it can utilise all of its parts to the optimum level.
Indeed, to me a HNV is in its name, Nutritional Value - what is good for its quarry and the fact it can utilise all of its parts to the optimum level.
In reply to Post #1
Personally I don't think that is an HNV bait, for the reasons Smurf covers. 'Just' protein does not make a bait HNV, it should have fats, minerals, vitamins and some carbohydrates.
To add to that I would be adding semolina, or even maize flour to assist in binding.
Personally I don't think that is an HNV bait, for the reasons Smurf covers. 'Just' protein does not make a bait HNV, it should have fats, minerals, vitamins and some carbohydrates.
To add to that I would be adding semolina, or even maize flour to assist in binding.
In reply to Post #1
I think full fat semolina is a good additive, protein content is a meaningless figure , its how thay can use a bait,
there needs, if its good you should reap the benefits, make it readily available , nutritional recognition
I think full fat semolina is a good additive, protein content is a meaningless figure , its how thay can use a bait,
there needs, if its good you should reap the benefits, make it readily available , nutritional recognition