I see another otter petition has come to the fore, this time asking for the otter to be downgraded in terms of status, interesting angle.
In reply to Post #1
Pointless petition
Pointless petition
In reply to Post #2
Pointless to some, but not to others
Pointless to some, but not to others
In reply to Post #3
I'd guess what Joss means is even if the status were to be downgraded (which is doubtful) it would still be illegal to kill them so it makes no odds.
I would actually like to hear Joss expand on his thoughts as the resident expert. As the population recovers it stands to reason that things could change at some point.
I'd guess what Joss means is even if the status were to be downgraded (which is doubtful) it would still be illegal to kill them so it makes no odds.
I would actually like to hear Joss expand on his thoughts as the resident expert. As the population recovers it stands to reason that things could change at some point.
In reply to Post #3
i meant its a pointless petition in terms it wont happen and an otters status wont change
i meant its a pointless petition in terms it wont happen and an otters status wont change
In reply to Post #4
Of course things could change, I mean everything has the ability to change, it stands to reason with an ever increasing population of otters that it should be talked about.
Of course things could change, I mean everything has the ability to change, it stands to reason with an ever increasing population of otters that it should be talked about.
In reply to Post #3
To the OP, schedule 5 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act (basically the protected species list) gets reviewed every 5 years and thus far has pretty much just grown and grown in size with each review so I can't see otters coming off any time soon.
I agree with Joss that the petition is a complete waste of time.
The problem we have is that for otters to be considered for de-schedule the population would have to increase massively and I'm sure some of us think there are plenty enough already. I know I do.
To the OP, schedule 5 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act (basically the protected species list) gets reviewed every 5 years and thus far has pretty much just grown and grown in size with each review so I can't see otters coming off any time soon.
I agree with Joss that the petition is a complete waste of time.
The problem we have is that for otters to be considered for de-schedule the population would have to increase massively and I'm sure some of us think there are plenty enough already. I know I do.
In reply to Post #7
The question being what would be an acceptable level for their status to change? I'm not too sure of it, although its evident that their numbers have exponentially increased if you go on just sightings alone.
The question being what would be an acceptable level for their status to change? I'm not too sure of it, although its evident that their numbers have exponentially increased if you go on just sightings alone.
In reply to Post #6
agreed, things can change, but when referring to Otters, this is one thing that wont change in the foreseeable future.
the national out cry for the countries favourite animal would be a political nightmare. NOW, i'm not saying i think otters should stay on said list or not, but with the recent huge comeback of, what WAS an endangered species and its huge success over recent years, there is no way the government will allow them to be "fair" game ever again, despite anglers views.
Can you ever see RSPB, NE, and every other wildlife group signing up to remove otters from the protected species list?
the other thing is, its only anglers calling for the removal and angling isn't exactly see in a great light outside of the angling paternity.
You could actually say angling has made a slight rod for its own back re the otters success.
agreed, things can change, but when referring to Otters, this is one thing that wont change in the foreseeable future.
the national out cry for the countries favourite animal would be a political nightmare. NOW, i'm not saying i think otters should stay on said list or not, but with the recent huge comeback of, what WAS an endangered species and its huge success over recent years, there is no way the government will allow them to be "fair" game ever again, despite anglers views.
Can you ever see RSPB, NE, and every other wildlife group signing up to remove otters from the protected species list?
the other thing is, its only anglers calling for the removal and angling isn't exactly see in a great light outside of the angling paternity.
You could actually say angling has made a slight rod for its own back re the otters success.
In reply to Post #9
I dont think the angling community had any say in it. Clearly the releases in the Thames catchment area were done without any proper risk assessment, and numbers have boomed out from there.
Obviously there could be a national outcry, but I'm in the thought of the public not particularly caring, why should they?
I've had conversations in the past with work colleagues, explaining the issue angling is facing, obviously I'm biased somewhat, but even still, most cant believe that there is nothing that can be done about the situation
I dont think the angling community had any say in it. Clearly the releases in the Thames catchment area were done without any proper risk assessment, and numbers have boomed out from there.
Obviously there could be a national outcry, but I'm in the thought of the public not particularly caring, why should they?
I've had conversations in the past with work colleagues, explaining the issue angling is facing, obviously I'm biased somewhat, but even still, most cant believe that there is nothing that can be done about the situation
In reply to Post #10
Agree again mate re impact surveys.
NONE were or are carried out pre release/s and they dont have to by law. Of which i personally find quite disturbing and very wrong.
i spend alot of my time talking to non anglers and they dont see the devastating impact on ALL wildlife that otters pose, they just see a cuddly cute creature. I was recently on a radio station where they were discussing a otter in the middle of a local towns park, even the radio host didnt understand what damage an otter can do.
I have been fascinated by otters and their behaviours and you cant help but admire them to some degree.
Petitions are normally poorly put forward and supported by people who and poorly informed and just jump on the bandwagon.
Agree again mate re impact surveys.
NONE were or are carried out pre release/s and they dont have to by law. Of which i personally find quite disturbing and very wrong.
i spend alot of my time talking to non anglers and they dont see the devastating impact on ALL wildlife that otters pose, they just see a cuddly cute creature. I was recently on a radio station where they were discussing a otter in the middle of a local towns park, even the radio host didnt understand what damage an otter can do.
I have been fascinated by otters and their behaviours and you cant help but admire them to some degree.
Petitions are normally poorly put forward and supported by people who and poorly informed and just jump on the bandwagon.
In reply to Post #10
The trouble is otters are an apex predator and apart from the ones that get hit by cars there is no control on their numbers. They will continue to increase until their food supply can no longer maintain their numbers. They are very intelligent I just hope they don't end up like the Fox.
The trouble is otters are an apex predator and apart from the ones that get hit by cars there is no control on their numbers. They will continue to increase until their food supply can no longer maintain their numbers. They are very intelligent I just hope they don't end up like the Fox.
In reply to Post #12
Otters are already common within towns, especially during floods as they escape more rural areas, they are then sighted and hunted by the general public with their cameras, no one seems to make a fuss about disturbing them then
predators will only be as successful as the available food source, once that depletes, then you may see a reduction in numbers, especially as we fence our lakes more, then i suspect angling will face yet another backlash as it will be seen as stopping otters access. But that will be a long way off.
Otters are already common within towns, especially during floods as they escape more rural areas, they are then sighted and hunted by the general public with their cameras, no one seems to make a fuss about disturbing them then
predators will only be as successful as the available food source, once that depletes, then you may see a reduction in numbers, especially as we fence our lakes more, then i suspect angling will face yet another backlash as it will be seen as stopping otters access. But that will be a long way off.
In reply to Post #13
I'll add
This is one argument Angling on its own will NEVER win. It will have to involve so many more wildlife groups to even be taken seriously, and even then, it wont get pushed through.
Otters will remain on the protected species list for more yrs than any of us have, no amount of petitions will change that, in fact, I'll go as far I'm saying it makes the angling community look daft, un educated and out for their own gain/s
I hope I'm wrong, but i doubt i am on this one
I'll add
This is one argument Angling on its own will NEVER win. It will have to involve so many more wildlife groups to even be taken seriously, and even then, it wont get pushed through.
Otters will remain on the protected species list for more yrs than any of us have, no amount of petitions will change that, in fact, I'll go as far I'm saying it makes the angling community look daft, un educated and out for their own gain/s
I hope I'm wrong, but i doubt i am on this one
In reply to Post #11
In regards to petitions, although very little comes from them, it does get people talking, as in this case, and the issue as I said before needs to be talked about.
As for the status change who knows, certainly the near future nothing will change, its clear there are issues surrounding them, as lakes are having to put fences up to protect their stocks, with the likes of Danny Fairbrass paying for them out of his own money, I'm sure the likes of him and Nash can pressure the AT who in turn can pressure other groups for change, in fact if it had been Korda instead of the BS petitioning then I could imagine it will of already hit 10-15k signatures.
In regards to petitions, although very little comes from them, it does get people talking, as in this case, and the issue as I said before needs to be talked about.
As for the status change who knows, certainly the near future nothing will change, its clear there are issues surrounding them, as lakes are having to put fences up to protect their stocks, with the likes of Danny Fairbrass paying for them out of his own money, I'm sure the likes of him and Nash can pressure the AT who in turn can pressure other groups for change, in fact if it had been Korda instead of the BS petitioning then I could imagine it will of already hit 10-15k signatures.