Hi all, just came back from a session on linear (just missed the closures from spawning luckily)

A 3 day blank was the result off my efforts.

I did hook 6 fish, all from the same spot, same rod using PVA solid bags. And lost every one of them. (The other spot was unproductive)

I've never lost so many, they all came off very early into the fight. I tried longer hairs, bigger hooks, barbless and micro barbed and all gave the same results.

They dive into the weed and come off almost immediately, a few other guys in different swims were having the same issues.

Do you guys have any tips here? Are there any solutions out there for dropping the lead on PVA bag setups? I tried the new cygnet stem leads but these weren't dropping.

Thanks

In reply to Post #1
If fishing in and around weed I fish big leads personally and no clutch. I like them to hit the lead and come up.

And you can drop the leads in solid bags very easily. There's a few videos on it on YouTube.

In reply to Post #2
Thanks for the reply. I was using 2.5oz lead with the small nash bags.

I had the Mrs with me for this one for some reason she recorded this run and me attempting to bring the last fish I lost in (was a decent sized fish!)
I'm convinced I did nothing wrong with the playing of the fish so its either the rig or as I though previously, using the weed to get away.

Annoying nonetheless.

In reply to Post #1
What size hooks were you using?

I had a similar problem fishing crete lakes.
I am a fan of big hooks and size 4 or even 2 have done me well over the years.

I was using the same rigs as I normally do with a size 4 hook and was losing every fish.

The bailiff recommended I switched to a smaller hook and said that he has seen this problem before with bigger hooks and his thought behind it is that once the fish goes in to the weed it can use the weed to flick the hook out.

I have never heard of this before and I chose to ignore his advice as I just couldn't believe what he was saying.

I lost another few fish before admitting defeat and switching to a size 8.
Landed every fish from that point onwards.

I still use size 4s after that trip on every other lake and never had the same problem.

Very strange indeed but taught me a lesson! Always listen to the bailiff

In reply to Post #4
I was using a size 6, then moved onto a size 4. Both korda wide gape hooks.

Both gave me the same results unfortunately.


Interesting thoughts on using a smaller hook though. my go to is a size 6 and I don't recall ever losing one to hook pulls until last weekend. Although I've never fished in weed as bad as this either.

What size fish were you targeting when using a size 8?

There is not enough information to work out what the cause of the hook pulls is.
Need to know the lead arrangement, heli or lead clip, is it a "drop the lead" set up?

At what point is the fish dropping off. Is it weedy, are the fish hitting the weed then it all goes tight and then the fish comes off?

And some details on the actual hook arrangement. Size of hooklength, how is it set up, and line aligner or kicker, etc.

I would also ask if you are fishing the rods on a loose or tight clutch. As soon as they get into weed they are incredibly adept at using it to ditch the hook. Don't give unnecessary line on the take and let them get into the weed. Amazes me why so many people have a loose clutch or bait runner, is it just to hear the bite alarm scream?!

In reply to Post #7
So their shiny wobbly rod pod doesn't get pulled in

In reply to Post #5
I was targeting fish to over 70lb that's why I was reluctant to use a size 8.
I caught fish to just under 50lb that trip and they held up well in the weed.

In reply to Post #1
What length of hooklink are you using ? Also if I was dropping fish I'd be looking to shortening the hair and slightly increasing the length of the hooklink. I use between 3.5 and 4 inch hooklinks, I inspect the hokholds on every fish and adjust hair and hooklink if necessary.

Wow a few questions here I'll try to answer them in one go. Thanks for the replies so far. Definately some food for thought in here.

The leads I used were the CYGNET FLAT PEAR QC INLINE LEADS. These have the pva stem that slots into them.

The fish were coming off very early into the fight, it was weedy in pretty much every direction. I would feel the fish fight, it would go tight for maybe a second or two and on some I could physically feel the hook pull out. And then nothing would come back in but a huge ball of weed over the lead and the hook.

Rigs were about 4.5" in length with a small piece of shrink tube over the knotless knot where the hair comes from. I pretty much copied the korda pva bag rigs.

As for the clutch, it certainly wasn't loose. The rod was bending before it took any line but it wasn't locked down either.


As for inspecting the hookholds of fish, this is the first time I've used pva bags and I haven't been able to land a single fish of about 8 takes on them. This is why I'm asking the question here.

Are they really good in the weed or am I doing something horribly wrong?

Were any of the fish still spawning and crashing through your lines maybe?

After reading this, for me I think the solution is sharp size 6/8 wide gape pattern, hair tight to the hook shank with a wafter style hookbait, 4 inch link, a lead system that drops effectively, drop-off inline will be fine and clutch set locked up with tips pointing up.

The link needs to be soft i.e supernatural and not the inner of dark matter for example.

Idea behind all this is that Mr Carp comes along, tilts down and hoovers the lot up, the soft link gives him enough rope to hang himself while still being short enough to give almost immediate connection to the lead. Fishing locked up with tips in the air gives the tightness that will allow the lead system to work spot-on, the fish should erupt on the surface and the tips in the air give a cushion to what is a locked up situation.

At this point you are lead-free and so gives you the best chance to land the fish in weedy situations.

Batten down the rod so it doesn't end up in the drink and treat this sort of fishing as hit and hold snag fishing.

I think the hook-pulls are coming for lightly hooked fish, finding the weed while the lead hasn't ejected.

Good luck!

In reply to Post #1
On a local park lake I fished, I had a number of hookpulls and ejected rigs.
I was watching takes, saw the rig being ejected on occasions and having hookpulls.
I went back to soft braid near the hook, (stripped from coated), a line aligner and the snowman, bottom bait just touching the hook, the hair leaving halfway between point and barb.

That stopped both ejections and hookpulls.


I have a basic theory which works for me:
If I'm deep hooking fish, back of the mouth or in the cheek, the hair and/or rig is too long.

If the fish are hooked dead centre of bottom lip, everything is perfect.

If I'm getting lost fish to hookpulls, or the hook is right at the edge of the lip, the hair and/or rig is too short.

Change one thing at a time, rig or hair length, then go from there.

Obviously it is rare to be able to see rig ejection in most waters, I could only see it as I was fishing at very short range in shallow clear water.

I have no reason to believe they were spawning no, and I don't think these were hitting the lines as I said I managed to get one to the surface then it dived down and it pulled.

I'm confident this is due to not dropping the lead and having a lot of weed about no having read the replies.

I shall play around with the rigs a little and see if I can make them more effective.

Does anyone have suggestions on what lead drop off system to use?
The avid one looks good but its out of stock everywhere and the cygnet one I have now clearly didn't drop the leads.

Thanks to all again.

In reply to Post #15
Don't need a specific brands drop-off system mate, whether fishing naked or with a leader just attach it to same side of your swivel as the hook link is attached to and plug the swivel into the inline lead, then push the tail rubber over the end of the lead insert on the other side and run the line/leader over the top of the lead. Upon tension from both sides of the lead, it'll come off everytime.

In reply to Post #15
I still think your hooklinks are too long even 1/2 inch shorter can be the difference between in the mouth and on the edge of the lips . You are simply pulling the hook out of a light hook hold during the fight. Ideally you want the hooklink to tighten to the lead immediately the fish sucks the bait in.

In reply to Post #11
Sorry, I didn't read this before my other reply, but that advice still stands, about lengthening rig or hair.

Something in weedy waters, avoid large barbed hooks, go to microbarbed, or barbless, even crimp or remove the barb. I've found that sometimes, even frequently improves hooking.
The fact that you were loosing fish so early suggests the hook was not penetrating or being taken into the mouth.

I haven't used very short rigs in weed, I still stick to 15cm, or 6inches, and have fished numbers of weedy waters; Taverham Mills, Earith, Brackens in the Caravan park end, and others.

I also use PVA bags, rigs ranging from Multi-rigs currently, but also line aligned rigs on Kryston Merlin, Mantis, Jackal and Snakeskin. I normally put the whole lot in, lead, rig, hook and bait, and usually use a pop-up.

I have never found the need to drop a lead, preferring Zipp (distance) inline leads, but also using run rings with a tight line.