im searching for a good milk protein, at the moment im using a milk replacer for lambs (smells amazing totally different to other milk replacers) but was curious about trying others, so just curious what milk proteins you guys use in a fishmeal mix
cheers
cheers
In reply to Post #1
When I make my own I use a combo of acid casein, lactalbumen and calcium casinate with a little bit of lamlac at 25% of the mix hope this helps
When I make my own I use a combo of acid casein, lactalbumen and calcium casinate with a little bit of lamlac at 25% of the mix hope this helps
In reply to Post #1
All top notch additions to a bait
Acid Casein
Rennet Casein
WPC 80
Lactalbumin
Out of the above, Lactalbumin used to be the most expensive, but are all about a similar price in small amounts.
All top notch additions to a bait
Acid Casein
Rennet Casein
WPC 80
Lactalbumin
Out of the above, Lactalbumin used to be the most expensive, but are all about a similar price in small amounts.
In reply to Post #2
How do you dose the Calcium Casein 5% in addition with milk replacer okay or all 10% casein?
How do you dose the Calcium Casein 5% in addition with milk replacer okay or all 10% casein?
In reply to Post #5
Lamlac. I've been down the complicated (and expensive) milks route and IMO they aren't worth it for the difference in returns. I use PDF for solubility anyway. Sure I'll get shot down but a milk replacer does the job for me
Lamlac. I've been down the complicated (and expensive) milks route and IMO they aren't worth it for the difference in returns. I use PDF for solubility anyway. Sure I'll get shot down but a milk replacer does the job for me
In reply to Post #6
Lamlac isn't really a milk protein, it has whey protein in its composition as well as cereal and vegetable proteins, it's very high in oil and sugar.
Refined milks are a totally different animal to both lamlac and predigested ( just so you know your lamlac is pretty soluble ).
Lamlac isn't really a milk protein, it has whey protein in its composition as well as cereal and vegetable proteins, it's very high in oil and sugar.
Refined milks are a totally different animal to both lamlac and predigested ( just so you know your lamlac is pretty soluble ).
In reply to Post #4
Most the “lactalbumin” sold is WPC82 now I believe
Most the “lactalbumin” sold is WPC82 now I believe
In reply to Post #1
All are valid, it depends totally upon the composition of your mix as to which are the most appropriate however.
I have dehumidifiers going full whack in a storage room for them as they're blooming expensive and the slightest bit of moisture on the bag means bye bye. A good way to keep on top of it at gone is to place the sack inside a bin bag and then into a space saver box with lid, or a blue barrel with a lid closure.
I regularly use calcium Caseinate, whey protein concentrate, acid casein, rennet casein, lamlac, milk protein concentrate, hydrolysed whey protein, and whey gel. All have different functions for example whey protein 82 and whey gel firm up a bait whilst lamlac softens it but increases palatability and fats.
It must be said that I don't use all of these in one mix, it's between two and their associates hookbaits etc.
One thing to be careful of with the pricier ingredients is to be careful that you aren't adding something for the sack of it. Some baits work perfectly well without milk proteins, and most the cheaper baits out there use lamlac and whey powder.
All are valid, it depends totally upon the composition of your mix as to which are the most appropriate however.
I have dehumidifiers going full whack in a storage room for them as they're blooming expensive and the slightest bit of moisture on the bag means bye bye. A good way to keep on top of it at gone is to place the sack inside a bin bag and then into a space saver box with lid, or a blue barrel with a lid closure.
I regularly use calcium Caseinate, whey protein concentrate, acid casein, rennet casein, lamlac, milk protein concentrate, hydrolysed whey protein, and whey gel. All have different functions for example whey protein 82 and whey gel firm up a bait whilst lamlac softens it but increases palatability and fats.
It must be said that I don't use all of these in one mix, it's between two and their associates hookbaits etc.
One thing to be careful of with the pricier ingredients is to be careful that you aren't adding something for the sack of it. Some baits work perfectly well without milk proteins, and most the cheaper baits out there use lamlac and whey powder.
In reply to Post #7
Been around long enough to know the ingredients and their solubility mate. Its fish food at the end of the day, I cant see the mileage in including higher cost milk proteins to make a 'better' bait when cheaper alternatives produce a great bait for a better price are available.
Been around long enough to know the ingredients and their solubility mate. Its fish food at the end of the day, I cant see the mileage in including higher cost milk proteins to make a 'better' bait when cheaper alternatives produce a great bait for a better price are available.
In reply to Post #10
Pardon ? it was purely as you stated you add PDF for the solubility as opposed to milks, I was letting you know the milks were indeed soluble anyhow.
Doesnt really matter how long people have been around, we can all advise, share and learn
As the mileage is higher spec milks, its originally for me was about continually striving to improve baits and find the optimum ingredients for their functions, thats not to say more affordable milk replacers arent valid, they are and I use them,
Pardon ? it was purely as you stated you add PDF for the solubility as opposed to milks, I was letting you know the milks were indeed soluble anyhow.
Doesnt really matter how long people have been around, we can all advise, share and learn
As the mileage is higher spec milks, its originally for me was about continually striving to improve baits and find the optimum ingredients for their functions, thats not to say more affordable milk replacers arent valid, they are and I use them,
In reply to Post #6
Whats PDF?
Whats PDF?
In reply to Post #12
Pre-digested fish meal?
Pre-digested fish meal?
In reply to Post #11
I think you took my post the wrong way. Both have a place in a bait, and everyone has their own opinions on them. Thats the good thing with bait, they can be as individual (and expensive) as people want to make them
I think you took my post the wrong way. Both have a place in a bait, and everyone has their own opinions on them. Thats the good thing with bait, they can be as individual (and expensive) as people want to make them
Why do you include a milk protein to a fishmeal bait?
In reply to Post #15
Unless you have a good dollop of LT94 fishmeal, and PD fishmeal, Milk proteins can help balance any lacking essential amino acids, hold a bait together better, like making it firmer and harder.
Baits can Roll better on the tables. Cut down on boiling times.
Depends on your budget wether you want to use them.
Unless you have a good dollop of LT94 fishmeal, and PD fishmeal, Milk proteins can help balance any lacking essential amino acids, hold a bait together better, like making it firmer and harder.
Baits can Roll better on the tables. Cut down on boiling times.
Depends on your budget wether you want to use them.
In reply to Post #16
This I can fully relate to, but you also read people writing for solubility, which it totally does not help with. As a matter of fact, it hinders leakage from a bait.
This I can fully relate to, but you also read people writing for solubility, which it totally does not help with. As a matter of fact, it hinders leakage from a bait.
In reply to Post #17
Sorry but I'm holding a data sheet for my preferred caseinate and I'm reading a high level of solubility.
Certainly caseins in the main are only very partially soluble, but caseinates, the calf milks etc all possess a decent level of solubility.
Sorry but I'm holding a data sheet for my preferred caseinate and I'm reading a high level of solubility.
Certainly caseins in the main are only very partially soluble, but caseinates, the calf milks etc all possess a decent level of solubility.
In reply to Post #18
As a powder on it's own: certainly. It will be very soluble. But used in a bait that will be heated: no.
I tested this quite thoroughly (if I may say so) and when I test a bait with or without a 10 percent addition of milk protein: always the ones without the milk protein leak much better (and also break off quicker).
As a powder on it's own: certainly. It will be very soluble. But used in a bait that will be heated: no.
I tested this quite thoroughly (if I may say so) and when I test a bait with or without a 10 percent addition of milk protein: always the ones without the milk protein leak much better (and also break off quicker).
In reply to Post #19
I've found completely opposite to be the case with Caseinate.
I've found completely opposite to be the case with Caseinate.
In reply to Post #20
Interesting!
Interesting!
In reply to Post #21
Feel free to pop me a message, I'd be interested to speak more about your experiments 🙂
Feel free to pop me a message, I'd be interested to speak more about your experiments 🙂
In reply to Post #22
Incoming!
Incoming!
In reply to Post #19
Interested to know. Do you include refined milks to a fishmeal base mix at all anymore after carrying out these tests?
Interested to know. Do you include refined milks to a fishmeal base mix at all anymore after carrying out these tests?
In reply to Post #24
Hi,
No, personally I do not. They add a lot of extra cost to a bait (about 1,3 pounds per kg dry mix @ 10 %) and the end result what I want to achieve (a bait that leaks it's soluble ingredients) is worse than with it. And personally I don't think my baits lacks any major nutritional elements without milks. Plus, carp are most often not dependent on baits, so they also eat snails, mussels, insects, crayfish etc.
Hi,
No, personally I do not. They add a lot of extra cost to a bait (about 1,3 pounds per kg dry mix @ 10 %) and the end result what I want to achieve (a bait that leaks it's soluble ingredients) is worse than with it. And personally I don't think my baits lacks any major nutritional elements without milks. Plus, carp are most often not dependent on baits, so they also eat snails, mussels, insects, crayfish etc.
In reply to Post #25
As a matter of fact, I even think about dropping it from my sweet birdfood/nut/(milk) mix....
As a matter of fact, I even think about dropping it from my sweet birdfood/nut/(milk) mix....
In reply to Post #25
You have pretty much described how I have been feeling for a while now.
Thank you for the input.
You have pretty much described how I have been feeling for a while now.
Thank you for the input.
In reply to Post #27
You're very welcome! Have you tested this out yourself as well?
You're very welcome! Have you tested this out yourself as well?
In reply to Post #28
No I haven't.
I always include Acid Casein to all of my FM baits.
I used to use Acid/Rennet 50/50 to a 40% FM bait but eventually dropped the Rennet after realising I wasn't achieving anything.
I am now questioning if I am achieving anything by using the Acid?
No I haven't.
I always include Acid Casein to all of my FM baits.
I used to use Acid/Rennet 50/50 to a 40% FM bait but eventually dropped the Rennet after realising I wasn't achieving anything.
I am now questioning if I am achieving anything by using the Acid?
In reply to Post #29
Depends on what you want to achieve obviously. What would that be? If it's (visual) leakage, why not make a 100 grams batch with 10 percent casein and one without. Then you know. This is how I do all of my testing.
Depends on what you want to achieve obviously. What would that be? If it's (visual) leakage, why not make a 100 grams batch with 10 percent casein and one without. Then you know. This is how I do all of my testing.
In reply to Post #30
Solubility/Amino Acid detection is definitely a big part of the inclusion.
Edit - also, the nutritional value that a good quality milk adds. I think we all suffer a moral dilemma at times and is a nice thought to give something back.
I shall have a play around. But as I mentioned a few posts a go. I have been thinking of playing around and not adding any milks for a while now.
Solubility/Amino Acid detection is definitely a big part of the inclusion.
Edit - also, the nutritional value that a good quality milk adds. I think we all suffer a moral dilemma at times and is a nice thought to give something back.
I shall have a play around. But as I mentioned a few posts a go. I have been thinking of playing around and not adding any milks for a while now.
In reply to Post #29
If you want to add milks and reduce the cost, you can always add milk powder. The protein quantity is less (30ty ish vs 80%) but you've got a 80-20 mix of casein and whey plus addional sugars.
Ok, you compromise to the protein content but you get so much more,: vitamins, sugars, etc
If you want to add milks and reduce the cost, you can always add milk powder. The protein quantity is less (30ty ish vs 80%) but you've got a 80-20 mix of casein and whey plus addional sugars.
Ok, you compromise to the protein content but you get so much more,: vitamins, sugars, etc
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