My mates are due out to France at the beginning of April after originally booked the lake in 2018.
They have received an email from the lake owner asking for another £500 + as there has been a price increase since the original booking .
The owner moved the booking forward due to covid .
So should they honour the original price or should the party pay the extra ?
They have received an email from the lake owner asking for another £500 + as there has been a price increase since the original booking .
The owner moved the booking forward due to covid .
So should they honour the original price or should the party pay the extra ?
In reply to Post #1
Unless there is a cause in the contract allowing for a change in price then no, the contract is for the price both parties agreed at the time of booking.
Unless there is a cause in the contract allowing for a change in price then no, the contract is for the price both parties agreed at the time of booking.
In reply to Post #2
I was going to PM you John .
Thanks for your post
I was going to PM you John .
Thanks for your post
In reply to Post #2
Is it possible that the lake concerned are taking the view that the payment has been carried forward rather than the booking ?
And no, it is not us !!
Is it possible that the lake concerned are taking the view that the payment has been carried forward rather than the booking ?
And no, it is not us !!
In reply to Post #1
Had a similar thing a few years ago after booking a french venue. Price was €2500 for the week. Lake owner wanted to charge us more due to the euro being weak against the pound. It didn't end well.....
If you agreed a price at that time, it should be honoured, but if it's a popular place he can just bump you if you can't reach an agreement. In our case, we also lost our deposits because the group refused to pay the additional money, which is something you may need to consider. Hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction.
Had a similar thing a few years ago after booking a french venue. Price was €2500 for the week. Lake owner wanted to charge us more due to the euro being weak against the pound. It didn't end well.....
If you agreed a price at that time, it should be honoured, but if it's a popular place he can just bump you if you can't reach an agreement. In our case, we also lost our deposits because the group refused to pay the additional money, which is something you may need to consider. Hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction.
Sad to hear
But this is why I always pay my deposit by credit card and then if/when something happens then I will get the card company to get my money back 👍
But this is why I always pay my deposit by credit card and then if/when something happens then I will get the card company to get my money back 👍
In reply to Post #6
The lad that booked the trip asked if he booked a week today for 3 years time would they suddenly increase the cost 6 weeks before they went .
The answer was “ no we have frozen prices till 2030”
The lad that booked the trip asked if he booked a week today for 3 years time would they suddenly increase the cost 6 weeks before they went .
The answer was “ no we have frozen prices till 2030”
In reply to Post #7
LOL, really, they will be going out of business before they know it!
LOL, really, they will be going out of business before they know it!
In reply to Post #8
David
Number 8 on their terms and conditions is
The price of your holiday is guaranteed
Goncourt complex
David
Number 8 on their terms and conditions is
The price of your holiday is guaranteed
Goncourt complex
In reply to Post #9
Goncourt 😳
Wow that's surprising they would do that
Goncourt 😳
Wow that's surprising they would do that
In reply to Post #10
Is it? Think the management of bookings there has been very poor since a certain person got involved with the running of the complex. That's just my opinion, but I remember things being very different some years ago.
There have also been some rumblings the owner has some significant financial issues. Again, only hearsay, but something has changed for the worse, thats for sure.
Is it? Think the management of bookings there has been very poor since a certain person got involved with the running of the complex. That's just my opinion, but I remember things being very different some years ago.
There have also been some rumblings the owner has some significant financial issues. Again, only hearsay, but something has changed for the worse, thats for sure.
In reply to Post #11
I've had it happen with a booking I made who have also madated a food package I won't name them incase its viewed as negative - that would be the 'current' price so I'm fairly happy to have the value of my old booking.as credit against the 'new' price.
I've had it happen with a booking I made who have also madated a food package I won't name them incase its viewed as negative - that would be the 'current' price so I'm fairly happy to have the value of my old booking.as credit against the 'new' price.
In reply to Post #11
Re goncourt booking system- what a friggin pain, to the point the booking system and that Phil idiot would certainly make me consider going there again! When you chase and chase and chase to get any answer if your deposit has been received, you get a sarcastic email from that idiot! Oh sorry Phil just wanted to make sure my £1400 hasn't disappeared into the ether!
To be fair the lakes are great, facilities are ok, showers use lake water that they don't advertise and if the filters are dirty (pretty much all the time) you shower in brown smally water! I certainly wouldn't wet shave there as the water in the sinks is the same, or clean your teeth in the shower block!
Re goncourt booking system- what a friggin pain, to the point the booking system and that Phil idiot would certainly make me consider going there again! When you chase and chase and chase to get any answer if your deposit has been received, you get a sarcastic email from that idiot! Oh sorry Phil just wanted to make sure my £1400 hasn't disappeared into the ether!
To be fair the lakes are great, facilities are ok, showers use lake water that they don't advertise and if the filters are dirty (pretty much all the time) you shower in brown smally water! I certainly wouldn't wet shave there as the water in the sinks is the same, or clean your teeth in the shower block!
In reply to Post #13
IMHO this all depends how the booking was handled once COVID kicked in.
I work in overseas fishing travel, nothing carp related but we have a simple rule. If the booking has been rolled over and people have left their cash with us then the prices are honoured from the original booking.
People that pulled all of their money out as soon as Covid raised it's ugly head and then want to rebook 2 years later will pay the current rate.
I'm obviously biased but the amount of money people are spending with next to no financial protection amazes me.
IMHO this all depends how the booking was handled once COVID kicked in.
I work in overseas fishing travel, nothing carp related but we have a simple rule. If the booking has been rolled over and people have left their cash with us then the prices are honoured from the original booking.
People that pulled all of their money out as soon as Covid raised it's ugly head and then want to rebook 2 years later will pay the current rate.
I'm obviously biased but the amount of money people are spending with next to no financial protection amazes me.
In reply to Post #14
I really am surprised that this covid situation and bookings/deposits/prices shenanigans following it didnt really change much... People are still "booking" lakes 3, 4 years in advance and majority of that is still just transferring money to some dudes account without any contract, bill or anything... People really do have a lot of money to throw away if you ask me...
I really am surprised that this covid situation and bookings/deposits/prices shenanigans following it didnt really change much... People are still "booking" lakes 3, 4 years in advance and majority of that is still just transferring money to some dudes account without any contract, bill or anything... People really do have a lot of money to throw away if you ask me...
Apart from Rainbow which I pay Pascal when turning up most of my foreign trips generally are group bookings through the booking agent Carp Specialist who were as good as gold all through covid, I had several trips booked with them and they were all moved adjusted for free with no further cash adjustments which is obviously testament to the owners of the lakes they deal with (so long as we gave them plenty of notice), I have one last trip with them booked in 2019 pre covid for October 2020 we moved it to September 2021 but that coincided with a few of the groups other plans eventually by the time it came around so we moved it again and we are now taking this trip October 2022 so a 3 year+ old booking basically, granted it was fully paid up from July 2020 but we have only had to pay a 50 euro admin fee for the second time we moved it.
In reply to Post #16
I have good experience with them as well.
I have good experience with them as well.
In reply to Post #6
You would think so but.....
I made a booking for a certain lake in late 2018 for April 20 Paid by credit card
Obviously I couldn't go in April 20 so I rolled it forward a whole year until April 2021. and yes I couldn't go again. Both due to COVID travel bans.
When I tried to contact the lake in question in early March 2021 they ignored me. No response to e mails, no answer on the phone. My date came and went so....
I claimed on my credit card I used to make the original booking. IT WAS REJECTED BECAUSE I WAS OUT IF TIME!
Apparently there is a time limit from the original payment for such claims of 12 months. This isn't a dodgy backstreet credit card. It was NatWest. Nothing they could do they said. I appealed, that was rejected, so now I am left with the prospect of taking them (NatWest) to court.
Don't assume the credit card protection will apply if the payment was made a long time ago. Given that popular lakes
have to be booked a long time in advance, and the postponement due to COVID you could well find yourself not protected at all, and "timed out" from the claim like me.
.
You would think so but.....
I made a booking for a certain lake in late 2018 for April 20 Paid by credit card
Obviously I couldn't go in April 20 so I rolled it forward a whole year until April 2021. and yes I couldn't go again. Both due to COVID travel bans.
When I tried to contact the lake in question in early March 2021 they ignored me. No response to e mails, no answer on the phone. My date came and went so....
I claimed on my credit card I used to make the original booking. IT WAS REJECTED BECAUSE I WAS OUT IF TIME!
Apparently there is a time limit from the original payment for such claims of 12 months. This isn't a dodgy backstreet credit card. It was NatWest. Nothing they could do they said. I appealed, that was rejected, so now I am left with the prospect of taking them (NatWest) to court.
Don't assume the credit card protection will apply if the payment was made a long time ago. Given that popular lakes
have to be booked a long time in advance, and the postponement due to COVID you could well find yourself not protected at all, and "timed out" from the claim like me.
.
In reply to Post #13
I am afraid that I had an absolute nightmare of a time with both Pascale and Phil and as a result, I am banned on the Facebook page and no longer welcome at the lakes .
After being loyal customers since 2017 and always having a good experiences, we had our 2020 booking rolled forward to 2021 and they tagged it onto our 2021 booking which seemed great , the Covid situation continued and I enquired with Pascale about moving the dates again which, she declined any movement whatsoever and insisted that France would be clear to travel on our given dates ( Which it was not ) and being as none of us could Quarantine I felt I had no option but to sell the trips to the highest offer which, cost our group a lot of money and caused ill feelings amongst us. It was a couple of days later when I found out that they had moved dates for other groups !
Phil then decided to get involved when I posted on the Facebook page about it and promptly banned me from the page and branded me a liar which, I am most certainly not and have every bit of correspondence between myself and Pascale to prove it and all of the subsequent exchanges between myself and him.
This is the first time I have aired the subject in public as I just wanted to forget the whole sad experience and move on however, seeing your post makes me realise that I was not the only party leader treated in a shoddy fashion.
I have a social trip to a commercial water once a year with Friends and Goncourt was our choice for several years and would have continued to be so had it not been for this episode. As a result, I would not recommend Goncourt in case anything like this emerges again and our group has now discontinued with the trips altogether.
I am afraid that I had an absolute nightmare of a time with both Pascale and Phil and as a result, I am banned on the Facebook page and no longer welcome at the lakes .
After being loyal customers since 2017 and always having a good experiences, we had our 2020 booking rolled forward to 2021 and they tagged it onto our 2021 booking which seemed great , the Covid situation continued and I enquired with Pascale about moving the dates again which, she declined any movement whatsoever and insisted that France would be clear to travel on our given dates ( Which it was not ) and being as none of us could Quarantine I felt I had no option but to sell the trips to the highest offer which, cost our group a lot of money and caused ill feelings amongst us. It was a couple of days later when I found out that they had moved dates for other groups !
Phil then decided to get involved when I posted on the Facebook page about it and promptly banned me from the page and branded me a liar which, I am most certainly not and have every bit of correspondence between myself and Pascale to prove it and all of the subsequent exchanges between myself and him.
This is the first time I have aired the subject in public as I just wanted to forget the whole sad experience and move on however, seeing your post makes me realise that I was not the only party leader treated in a shoddy fashion.
I have a social trip to a commercial water once a year with Friends and Goncourt was our choice for several years and would have continued to be so had it not been for this episode. As a result, I would not recommend Goncourt in case anything like this emerges again and our group has now discontinued with the trips altogether.
In reply to Post #19
I have had opposite happy to me the lake owner droppednhis price this year soni contacted him to see if we could pay that price even though we booked last year he said yes no worries so saved £400 happy days
I have had opposite happy to me the lake owner droppednhis price this year soni contacted him to see if we could pay that price even though we booked last year he said yes no worries so saved £400 happy days
In reply to Post #20
Same place as I mentioned?
Same place as I mentioned?
In reply to Post #21
No mate total different place
No mate total different place
In reply to Post #19
@ Scar,
Phil is going to cost her money, the complex customers, and once bad press starts to trickle out the popularity will go down.
when we went, there were loads of dead commons floating around, she explained they had "received" a bad batch of them and pretty much every one of them in every lake had popped up dead.
I wouldn't trust that Phil as far as i could thrown him, he is a proper melt.
@ Scar,
Phil is going to cost her money, the complex customers, and once bad press starts to trickle out the popularity will go down.
when we went, there were loads of dead commons floating around, she explained they had "received" a bad batch of them and pretty much every one of them in every lake had popped up dead.
I wouldn't trust that Phil as far as i could thrown him, he is a proper melt.
In reply to Post #1
Had a similar experience with a booking we had on King lake in july 2020, cancelled originally due to covid, pushed back to 2021, which was again cancelled and no further alternatives offered. Will never book there again, she cited as reasons not to rebook that they were experiencing financial issues, even though they were advertising and posting that they were almost fully booked till 2024. As I was a member of a group, my part of the payment was not covered by insurance as I had no contract them and our group 'leader' hadn't got insurance...
Had a similar experience with a booking we had on King lake in july 2020, cancelled originally due to covid, pushed back to 2021, which was again cancelled and no further alternatives offered. Will never book there again, she cited as reasons not to rebook that they were experiencing financial issues, even though they were advertising and posting that they were almost fully booked till 2024. As I was a member of a group, my part of the payment was not covered by insurance as I had no contract them and our group 'leader' hadn't got insurance...
In reply to Post #1
Had a similar experience with a booking we had on King lake in july 2020, cancelled originally due to covid, pushed back to 2021, which was again cancelled and no further alternatives offered. Will never book there again, she cited as reasons not to rebook that they were experiencing financial issues, even though they were advertising and posting that they were almost fully booked till 2024. As I was a member of a group, my part of the payment was not covered by insurance as I had no contract them and our group 'leader' hadn't got insurance...
Had a similar experience with a booking we had on King lake in july 2020, cancelled originally due to covid, pushed back to 2021, which was again cancelled and no further alternatives offered. Will never book there again, she cited as reasons not to rebook that they were experiencing financial issues, even though they were advertising and posting that they were almost fully booked till 2024. As I was a member of a group, my part of the payment was not covered by insurance as I had no contract them and our group 'leader' hadn't got insurance...
In reply to Post #25
I do feel somewhat sorry for lake owners, as even if they move the booking, it's still a week's income lost, as they could have sold the moved week to someone else.
My experience was similar to yours. The lake in question (which was a big organisation with several lakes across France-NOT GONCOURT) was happy to move my booking from 2020 to 2021, but not a second time. However unlike your experience they simply ghosted me!
I would have been up for some sort of compromise, or The deposit taken forward at say half its value. But they simply kept the deposit and ignored my numerous e mails
Credit card claim was useless as I was "timed out" see below.
My view. COVID was painful for all, both financially and emotionally, but lakes probably suffered disproportionately, but maybe those who acted with grace and customer care should be the ones that get out patronage in the future.
I do feel somewhat sorry for lake owners, as even if they move the booking, it's still a week's income lost, as they could have sold the moved week to someone else.
My experience was similar to yours. The lake in question (which was a big organisation with several lakes across France-NOT GONCOURT) was happy to move my booking from 2020 to 2021, but not a second time. However unlike your experience they simply ghosted me!
I would have been up for some sort of compromise, or The deposit taken forward at say half its value. But they simply kept the deposit and ignored my numerous e mails
Credit card claim was useless as I was "timed out" see below.
My view. COVID was painful for all, both financially and emotionally, but lakes probably suffered disproportionately, but maybe those who acted with grace and customer care should be the ones that get out patronage in the future.
I haven't fished Goncourt in a longtime probably 13 or 14 years it was starting to become France's equivalent of Linear, those that have fished the lakes on the complex did lady Pascale ever bring anyone an apple pie claiming she had just made it, mine still had the price on the underside of the tray from Leclerc 
In reply to Post #26
@silverslayer to be fair if a fishery had a fish kill and the stock was totally wiped out, they would have to take a couple of years (minimum) with no income to rebuild, so its not different as this is a risk all French fisheries run.
How a fishery has handled the last two years will be paid back ten fold in the coming years by repeat and and returning customers.
Some lake owners took the two years absence of anglers to do work on their lake and improve their fishery ready for returning guests, some just took to Facebook and moaned, some took the money and ran. Personally i wouldn't give the moaners and money takers the time of day or my future custom, those that looked to improve ready for the world going back to normal will benefit in the long run.
In my opinion most French fishery owners are just out for as much money as they can get, playing the short game to get their return as quick as possible, the ones that have realised its a long game will be more successful and probably offer a more enjoyable holiday experience.
@silverslayer to be fair if a fishery had a fish kill and the stock was totally wiped out, they would have to take a couple of years (minimum) with no income to rebuild, so its not different as this is a risk all French fisheries run.
How a fishery has handled the last two years will be paid back ten fold in the coming years by repeat and and returning customers.
Some lake owners took the two years absence of anglers to do work on their lake and improve their fishery ready for returning guests, some just took to Facebook and moaned, some took the money and ran. Personally i wouldn't give the moaners and money takers the time of day or my future custom, those that looked to improve ready for the world going back to normal will benefit in the long run.
In my opinion most French fishery owners are just out for as much money as they can get, playing the short game to get their return as quick as possible, the ones that have realised its a long game will be more successful and probably offer a more enjoyable holiday experience.
In reply to Post #28
I don't disagree with your comments.
But a Fishkill is usually (but admittedly not always) caused by poor fishery management.
COVID was outside the control of anybody. Look at how some airlines conducted themselves: Ryanair anybody ?
I am not defending them, and those who cut and run, may have done so because of personal circumstances ; I have an ex business associate that had a wine bar for a number of years. He was in his early 60s in 2020. When COVID started in March 2020, he took his local authority grant £27k, put it in his pension, and shut the wine bar and made all his staff redundant, liquidated his furniture, and defaulted on his lease. Basically permanently shut up shop. am not condoning what he did, but he didn't believe the 3 month nonsense being stated at the time, said to me "this will be hell for Months" and decided it was in his own best financial interest to do what he did. He was probably (almost certainly) correct!
It's those fisheries who kept the deposit completely in full and didn't offer any compromise but continued to trade I have a problem with.
I don't disagree with your comments.
But a Fishkill is usually (but admittedly not always) caused by poor fishery management.
COVID was outside the control of anybody. Look at how some airlines conducted themselves: Ryanair anybody ?
I am not defending them, and those who cut and run, may have done so because of personal circumstances ; I have an ex business associate that had a wine bar for a number of years. He was in his early 60s in 2020. When COVID started in March 2020, he took his local authority grant £27k, put it in his pension, and shut the wine bar and made all his staff redundant, liquidated his furniture, and defaulted on his lease. Basically permanently shut up shop. am not condoning what he did, but he didn't believe the 3 month nonsense being stated at the time, said to me "this will be hell for Months" and decided it was in his own best financial interest to do what he did. He was probably (almost certainly) correct!
It's those fisheries who kept the deposit completely in full and didn't offer any compromise but continued to trade I have a problem with.
In reply to Post #24
I had that one thrown in my general direction as well however, it was the fact that they moved the dates for others and not us that really bugged me and the fact that she insisted 100% that France would be OK for our trip which, it was not.
Couple that with their FB profiles showing brand new Cars and expensive Motorcycles and it really rubbed salt into our wounds.
At the end of the day, our group was treated differently to other groups and that it not only cost us money but, also precious Fishing time.
The ensuing communications from both Pascale and Phil were farcical where they continued to change there stories and contradict one another and I have kept them for any occasion that I deem it necessary to show anyone that may be interested.
I had that one thrown in my general direction as well however, it was the fact that they moved the dates for others and not us that really bugged me and the fact that she insisted 100% that France would be OK for our trip which, it was not.
Couple that with their FB profiles showing brand new Cars and expensive Motorcycles and it really rubbed salt into our wounds.
At the end of the day, our group was treated differently to other groups and that it not only cost us money but, also precious Fishing time.
The ensuing communications from both Pascale and Phil were farcical where they continued to change there stories and contradict one another and I have kept them for any occasion that I deem it necessary to show anyone that may be interested.
In reply to Post #30
I met Phil when I was fishing there a few years ago. Think he hadn't been there long
Was only for 5 minutes. But that was more than long enough for me. 😲🤔
I met Phil when I was fishing there a few years ago. Think he hadn't been there long
Was only for 5 minutes. But that was more than long enough for me. 😲🤔
In reply to Post #30
Sounds like the stories we were given, the 2nd time they insisted it was fine to travel to france, then they went silent, apparently Pascale was in for an operation, then just nothing.....
Sounds like the stories we were given, the 2nd time they insisted it was fine to travel to france, then they went silent, apparently Pascale was in for an operation, then just nothing.....
In reply to Post #33
Pretty poor if you ask me.
Pretty poor if you ask me.
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