one for the bait makers, what are peoples opinions on the increases that have been occuring since brexit? are we moving into a new age where smaller firms knocking out a bait at shop prices and will we start seeing the retailers putting boilie from the big brands at £!5/16 across the board in 2022?
In reply to Post #1
Something has to give
Mpg from 1200-5000
Caseins from 200-300 per sack
Where will it end!
Something has to give
Mpg from 1200-5000
Caseins from 200-300 per sack
Where will it end!
In reply to Post #2
Krill meals going up aswell, semo too... whole egg powder in the new year is going up by around 30% and I think the ff soya is also, I'm half tempted to roll a bait at £8 a kilo cost price and see if my close lads are interested in paying £11/12 a kg for it...
The market is saturated now after All, I wouldn't dare count how many brands/bait rollers there is
Krill meals going up aswell, semo too... whole egg powder in the new year is going up by around 30% and I think the ff soya is also, I'm half tempted to roll a bait at £8 a kilo cost price and see if my close lads are interested in paying £11/12 a kg for it...
The market is saturated now after All, I wouldn't dare count how many brands/bait rollers there is
In reply to Post #3
Only people that buy dry powder ingredients will understand what you are both saying, as the ready rolled brigade don't realize the small/very margins margins involved in putting together a good quality boilie from scratch, and still make a profit, when the suppliers whack their prices up.
They just want to pay £5 - 6 a kilo tops
RRP /end Price has to go up, or quality goes down, like any business running for too long with no profit
Only people that buy dry powder ingredients will understand what you are both saying, as the ready rolled brigade don't realize the small/very margins margins involved in putting together a good quality boilie from scratch, and still make a profit, when the suppliers whack their prices up.
They just want to pay £5 - 6 a kilo tops
RRP /end Price has to go up, or quality goes down, like any business running for too long with no profit
In reply to Post #1
My margin is down to less an a quid in bulk, think I'm in trouble lol.
to be fair, for me caseins from bacarel have been fairly stable this year.
My margin is down to less an a quid in bulk, think I'm in trouble lol.
to be fair, for me caseins from bacarel have been fairly stable this year.
In reply to Post #5
Have you asked bacarel this month? They have already pre warned about certain products going up 50-100 percent!
Have you asked bacarel this month? They have already pre warned about certain products going up 50-100 percent!
In reply to Post #5
I've spent most of today wondwring weather it's worth while being in the £5-6 bracket and dealing with less people and putting out a higher grade bait, it'll be something else I'm thinking tomorow as every day my minds on a different subject, to contract roll or not to contract roll, go into just hookbaits and scale rite down or go the other way and scale rite up, I never switch off
The increases are deffinatly making my mind go into overdrive I've new baits planned for next season and I just don't know how far to go with them with how the world is at the moment
I've spent most of today wondwring weather it's worth while being in the £5-6 bracket and dealing with less people and putting out a higher grade bait, it'll be something else I'm thinking tomorow as every day my minds on a different subject, to contract roll or not to contract roll, go into just hookbaits and scale rite down or go the other way and scale rite up, I never switch off
The increases are deffinatly making my mind go into overdrive I've new baits planned for next season and I just don't know how far to go with them with how the world is at the moment
In reply to Post #6
had no warning, just rung an alternative supplier and they're not putting up more than ten percent.
Weird really as Britain over produces with milk.
had no warning, just rung an alternative supplier and they're not putting up more than ten percent.
Weird really as Britain over produces with milk.
In reply to Post #8
Whey gel hg80 from BAF is now £239.99 a sack
Whey gel hg80 from BAF is now £239.99 a sack
In reply to Post #9
I only use that in hookbaits really.
Bottom line is people are going to need to start paying fairly for bait.
I only use that in hookbaits really.
Bottom line is people are going to need to start paying fairly for bait.
In reply to Post #10
Anyone fancy going halves on a herd of cows?
Anyone fancy going halves on a herd of cows?
In reply to Post #11
All you need is bloodworm liquid and some plastic corn.
All you need is bloodworm liquid and some plastic corn.
In reply to Post #12
In reply to Post #1
Is this due to general inflation or the perks of the Brexit?
Is this due to general inflation or the perks of the Brexit?
In reply to Post #4
i started rolling my own this year with a simple fishmix
2 types of fishmeal and 2 "binders" with some food liquid
i was looking at adding some extra stuff to it now i have the hang of it but all the price hikes for ingredients has got me thinking is it work the effort
perhaps just rolling special hookbaits with a few boilie and bulking out with cheaper carpet feeds.
carping is going to become a VERY pricey thing to do if you fish places where you seem to need to "pile" it in to compete or perhaps being smarter about usage needs to be the way to go
a couple of hand fulls in the correct place.
alternatives to some of the "proteins" we currently use will be needed, i mean there was a time when birdfood was viable alternative but they have become as expensive as fishmeal
i started rolling my own this year with a simple fishmix
2 types of fishmeal and 2 "binders" with some food liquid
i was looking at adding some extra stuff to it now i have the hang of it but all the price hikes for ingredients has got me thinking is it work the effort
perhaps just rolling special hookbaits with a few boilie and bulking out with cheaper carpet feeds.
carping is going to become a VERY pricey thing to do if you fish places where you seem to need to "pile" it in to compete or perhaps being smarter about usage needs to be the way to go
a couple of hand fulls in the correct place.
alternatives to some of the "proteins" we currently use will be needed, i mean there was a time when birdfood was viable alternative but they have become as expensive as fishmeal
In reply to Post #15
Birdfoods lots are more expensive than good LT fishmeals, in many cases now.
Priced themselves out of many a home roller /commercial bait nowadays by being too greedy, and expensive to use at the recommended, and preferred amounts or levels.
How come the really good Human grade milk proteins don't seem to be that affected by big price hikes ?
Got to be more work involved to filter that milk to end product like Casein's and Whey protein.
Birdfoods lots are more expensive than good LT fishmeals, in many cases now.
Priced themselves out of many a home roller /commercial bait nowadays by being too greedy, and expensive to use at the recommended, and preferred amounts or levels.
How come the really good Human grade milk proteins don't seem to be that affected by big price hikes ?
Got to be more work involved to filter that milk to end product like Casein's and Whey protein.
In reply to Post #16
Milk products shouldn't be going up with the overproduction of raw materials. where they do other companys fill the gap. some amazing milk proteins that arent french now!
Birdfoods more add binding and texture so really, I'm not sure its worth looking beyond those two factors, nutritive and attractive properties are better adressed with marine extracts etc.
I think we're just about done developing the best HNV "nut" style bait I've ever seen, its taken a long time ( no releases since 2014! ) but its brilliant, loaded with liver and cpsp90 ( in decent quantities ) as well as the usual suspects of tigernut and peanut, then the refined milks, acid and rennet, wpc80 etc.
unfortuantely it'll now be 20 quid a kilo no discounts 
Milk products shouldn't be going up with the overproduction of raw materials. where they do other companys fill the gap. some amazing milk proteins that arent french now!
Birdfoods more add binding and texture so really, I'm not sure its worth looking beyond those two factors, nutritive and attractive properties are better adressed with marine extracts etc.
I think we're just about done developing the best HNV "nut" style bait I've ever seen, its taken a long time ( no releases since 2014! ) but its brilliant, loaded with liver and cpsp90 ( in decent quantities ) as well as the usual suspects of tigernut and peanut, then the refined milks, acid and rennet, wpc80 etc.
unfortuantely it'll now be 20 quid a kilo no discounts
In reply to Post #17
I'm hearing it's down to transport costs and gas prices
I'm hearing it's down to transport costs and gas prices
In reply to Post #18
But if a British firm took it upon themselves to make milk protein.... Could be interesting
But if a British firm took it upon themselves to make milk protein.... Could be interesting
In reply to Post #19
The funny thing is they used to, but our friend the Common Market meant that prices of European produced milk proteins were easier to get hold of than UK produced.
The UK apparently over produces milk, so where does the excess go? Perfect source of the main component needed for milk ingredients.
The funny thing is they used to, but our friend the Common Market meant that prices of European produced milk proteins were easier to get hold of than UK produced.
The UK apparently over produces milk, so where does the excess go? Perfect source of the main component needed for milk ingredients.
In reply to Post #16
arent they dear to start with
aka john baker milk mixes
i did toy with the idea of using a recipe i saw online from a chap who used to publish alot of content and got me interested in making bait.
the "milk based" one is
Maize flour
Semolina
Vitamealo
Acid Casein
colour
flavour
and does a proper milk bait offer more effective attraction than a FM?
arent they dear to start with
aka john baker milk mixes
i did toy with the idea of using a recipe i saw online from a chap who used to publish alot of content and got me interested in making bait.
the "milk based" one is
Maize flour
Semolina
Vitamealo
Acid Casein
colour
flavour
and does a proper milk bait offer more effective attraction than a FM?
In reply to Post #21
I'll say it now
John bakers base mixes are no where near worth the money he charges.
With regards to your mix, its not really a milk mix unless you see percentages that could essentially be a sweetened 50-50 mix?
As for attraction, I've only seen 3 milk products that perform anywhere near as well as fishmeal in terms of attraction and certain not the hydrolysed fish proteins which in my opinion cannot be beaten.
Bear in mind all good balanced fishmeal baits usually contain an element of milks, in cheap baits it'll be a soy based milk replacer for fifty quid a sack, in the premium versions, you move onto whey protein, caseinates and caseins etc. this is usually done to balance out the nutritional content of the mix.
I'll say it now
John bakers base mixes are no where near worth the money he charges.
With regards to your mix, its not really a milk mix unless you see percentages that could essentially be a sweetened 50-50 mix?
As for attraction, I've only seen 3 milk products that perform anywhere near as well as fishmeal in terms of attraction and certain not the hydrolysed fish proteins which in my opinion cannot be beaten.
Bear in mind all good balanced fishmeal baits usually contain an element of milks, in cheap baits it'll be a soy based milk replacer for fifty quid a sack, in the premium versions, you move onto whey protein, caseinates and caseins etc. this is usually done to balance out the nutritional content of the mix.
In reply to Post #21
I don't think that milk protein bases are as good as any meat or fish based bait. They need additional amylase and trypsin added to the mix to be able to be utilised.
The base mix you have posted is basic, and quite literally just a carrier for the flavour. You could improve it quite easily, by adding liver powder (around 25-30% of the base mix) or a fishmeal. I think liver is a better year round addition than an oily fishmeal.
I don't think that milk protein bases are as good as any meat or fish based bait. They need additional amylase and trypsin added to the mix to be able to be utilised.
The base mix you have posted is basic, and quite literally just a carrier for the flavour. You could improve it quite easily, by adding liver powder (around 25-30% of the base mix) or a fishmeal. I think liver is a better year round addition than an oily fishmeal.
In reply to Post #22
I would rather use a milk protein mix than a fishmeal mix without milk protein. I should say that nearly all my mixes contain yeast and liver as well be that a fish, milk, birdfood or nut mix.
Fishmeal with 10% milk protein is in a different league to a fishmeal mix without the Milks, well they have been in my experience anyway.
I would rather use a milk protein mix than a fishmeal mix without milk protein. I should say that nearly all my mixes contain yeast and liver as well be that a fish, milk, birdfood or nut mix.
Fishmeal with 10% milk protein is in a different league to a fishmeal mix without the Milks, well they have been in my experience anyway.
In reply to Post #22
Nothing John baker sells is worth the money he charges....
Nothing John baker sells is worth the money he charges....
In reply to Post #24
Yep I agree with that!!
Yep I agree with that!!
In reply to Post #26
You'd rather use a pure milk protein basemix that a fishmeal without milk protein?
You'd rather use a pure milk protein basemix that a fishmeal without milk protein?
In reply to Post #23
to me a flavour carrier mix is just a 50/50 of soya and semo?
the addition of the milk bits and bobs makes it a little more than that?
like i say pretty new to it all so was just starting off pretty basic.
to me a flavour carrier mix is just a 50/50 of soya and semo?
the addition of the milk bits and bobs makes it a little more than that?
like i say pretty new to it all so was just starting off pretty basic.
In reply to Post #28
To me a milk protein based bait should be 50 % or more milk proteins, which unless balanced with additional items in my opinion is a pretty poor bait.
To me a milk protein based bait should be 50 % or more milk proteins, which unless balanced with additional items in my opinion is a pretty poor bait.
In reply to Post #27
No I was agreeing that the Fishmeal baits that contain good milks make the best baits. I don't think anything can better the blend of fish to milk to bird food combo. Out and out milk baits are a pain to work with, and lack certain salts, minerals and textures that carp find attractive. I'm a big milk fan, but the use of quality caseins etc is disappearing due to cost. More reason to use them now if you want to make good baits. One fact that will never change. Carp love fishmeals. And milk products are also attractive to them and provide certain functions within a bait to help them work longer in cold water. Certain ingredients that are good for humans and mammals seem to provide attraction or nutrition for carp. I'm happy with the baits we make now but to be honest the theory is 40/50 years old. I have never honestly seen a cheap soy semo bait out catch a proper balanced food bait over the course of a season! And this year it has been boilies versus particle on two venues I fish. The boilies have won hands down even though the particles have been applied en masse!
Why is this? I think the carp love crunching particles but they also know that one boilie tastes better and does them more good than a piece of hempseed! I can never prove this of course but I have not used big beds of particles for years now and I'm catching more big fish and quicker than ever before! If everyone used really good boilies then that may not be the case. The big particle companies made sure everyone had particle in the mix down in Oxfordshire........ but the best hits we had were on fishmeal/milk/bird boilies! I hope next year that everyone hammers the particle again 😉
No I was agreeing that the Fishmeal baits that contain good milks make the best baits. I don't think anything can better the blend of fish to milk to bird food combo. Out and out milk baits are a pain to work with, and lack certain salts, minerals and textures that carp find attractive. I'm a big milk fan, but the use of quality caseins etc is disappearing due to cost. More reason to use them now if you want to make good baits. One fact that will never change. Carp love fishmeals. And milk products are also attractive to them and provide certain functions within a bait to help them work longer in cold water. Certain ingredients that are good for humans and mammals seem to provide attraction or nutrition for carp. I'm happy with the baits we make now but to be honest the theory is 40/50 years old. I have never honestly seen a cheap soy semo bait out catch a proper balanced food bait over the course of a season! And this year it has been boilies versus particle on two venues I fish. The boilies have won hands down even though the particles have been applied en masse!
Why is this? I think the carp love crunching particles but they also know that one boilie tastes better and does them more good than a piece of hempseed! I can never prove this of course but I have not used big beds of particles for years now and I'm catching more big fish and quicker than ever before! If everyone used really good boilies then that may not be the case. The big particle companies made sure everyone had particle in the mix down in Oxfordshire........ but the best hits we had were on fishmeal/milk/bird boilies! I hope next year that everyone hammers the particle again 😉
In reply to Post #30
I do think the "fishmeals with 10% milks" is an over simplification, fair enough I didn't know which part of the statement you agreed with lol my bad.
I agree blends tend to work better than out and out purest forms ad certainly, there is no one category of ingredient that provides a complete food source on the market. and then theres the "hydrodynamics" per say of ingredients such as solubility, buoyancy etc
I think a lot of the top baits being made now are, although different, all hitting that same level of quality, through a blended appropriate diet.
Particles is a funny one, on some venues they destroy boilies but I think the current generation of big fish in British waters where basically brought up on boilie.
I've got an interesting situation on a syndicate Ive been accepted on to where its massively rich in naturals and the owner actively encourages that naturals growth, some seriously big seriously well conditioned carp in there so I'll be having a few of those nights where a single bleep has you up as if someones smashed a window downstairs
With regards to amounts of boilies, I think it depends on if laying a trap for a single carp or trying to hold a few fish and catch more! single food bait pop ups are a favourite of mine
I do think the "fishmeals with 10% milks" is an over simplification, fair enough I didn't know which part of the statement you agreed with lol my bad.
I agree blends tend to work better than out and out purest forms ad certainly, there is no one category of ingredient that provides a complete food source on the market. and then theres the "hydrodynamics" per say of ingredients such as solubility, buoyancy etc
I think a lot of the top baits being made now are, although different, all hitting that same level of quality, through a blended appropriate diet.
Particles is a funny one, on some venues they destroy boilies but I think the current generation of big fish in British waters where basically brought up on boilie.
I've got an interesting situation on a syndicate Ive been accepted on to where its massively rich in naturals and the owner actively encourages that naturals growth, some seriously big seriously well conditioned carp in there so I'll be having a few of those nights where a single bleep has you up as if someones smashed a window downstairs
With regards to amounts of boilies, I think it depends on if laying a trap for a single carp or trying to hold a few fish and catch more! single food bait pop ups are a favourite of mine
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