Hi All

Apologies in advance if this is a real noddy question

I'm trying to find out if there is rule of thumbs on different baits/rigs to use over certain surfaces.

I'm finding gravelly feeling spots in lakes and wondering if using boilies over this area is a waste of time? Or is a pop up better?

Similarly are boilies better fishing on silt? Or pop ups?

I would greatly appreciate it if someone could advise the best rig/bait combinations to use on different lake bed surfaces.

Even if anyone could direct me to some good YouTube videos that have info on this topic that would be great

Thanks

In reply to Post #1
Apart from fishing a pop up in weed, everything else is down to personal preference

In reply to Post #1
Hi Dan.

The key questions on rig choice really comes down to a. Do you need a particular rig in order to present your hook effectively and b. How are you trying to hook the carp. C. How wary are the carp.

So A.
If you are fishing over weed, perhaps low lying silk weed for instance, or maybe silt. If your hook is on the bottom will it be impaired from entering the carps mouth as it sucks in. If you feel the answer is yes then a good tactic is to use a bait with some additional buoyancy. However on a hard clean gravel spot them it's likely the fish will be feeding tight to the deck. In which case a pop up floating above all the free offerings might not be taken. So perhaps a bottom bait or wafter would be a better choice.

B. Are you trying to get the carp to feed on a bed of boilies. Moving from one to another building up confidence. In which case maybe a bait which matches your free offerings is best. Maybe it's early in the season and you're not baiting heavily. In which can a single bright in your face pop up bait might be best.

C. My experience is on hungry waters carp are more likely to play the percentage game in order to get their share of the food. So they are less “riggy” and you can get away with bright crazy pop ups on hard spots etc. But on more pressured low stocked waters the fish has more time to inspect a bed of bait. In which case that bright bait or that pop up might get ignored.

Or a combination of any or all of the above.

With regards to whether you should fish hard spots with boilies. If the spot hasn't been cleaned off by bird life then there's a fair chance that fish have done it. So they have obviously felt safe at some point feeding in that location. So it's definitely worth fishing. Although that doesn't mean you have to have your hookbaits bang in the middle. Much better to position your hookbaits off to the side in the softer stuff on the edge of the cleaned off bit. This means your rig isn't so obvious and hopefully the fish might come across it first. It might be treated with less caution. If it's that obvious a spot. I bet you won't be the first guy to fish it. This can make them wary to feed hard there if they've been nailed there before. So off to the side might be best.

You won't go far wrong going back through a lot of the early Korda videos on their YouTube channel. There's a ton of basic helpful info in those.

In reply to Post #1
Personally think you should flip your title - when to fish pop ups instead of boilies . .?

Assuming by boilies you mean bottom baits? For me I'd always look to fish a bottom bait / wafter wherever possible . . . the only time where I'd 'maybe' use a pop-up is chods / cast to a showing fish / chuck it and chance it fishing where you cannot guarantee the state of the lake bed surface. That and using one for zigs / surface fishing . . .

In reply to Post #1
Every man and his dog are chucking out ronnie rigs nowadays. Sling a bottom bait out. My local lake has an area that is covered in choddy black leaves and everyone either avoids it or fishes a pop up .....Ive fished a bottom bait over it and been mega successful, especially when i cant get a touch on a pop up, the bottom bait gets taken. When I tell people i fish bottom baits over it they dont believe me.

In reply to Post #7
I don't believe you

In reply to Post #8
haha might of known that was coming haha

In reply to Post #5
Really appreciate the replies

In reply to Post #7
Yes i found a good tactic to use in those situations is a pop up hook bait trimmed down to make it into a critically balanced wafter.
It will sink slowly to rest very gently on top of lake bed debris (dead leaves etc.) with the added benefit of negating the weight of the hook and flying up into the fish's mouth easier.

In reply to Post #11
I just fish a standard bottom bait out the bag, I just thing the carp pick them up with so much more confidence s they see stray boilies scattered about all over they must just drop and pick them up without caution. Nails em.

In reply to Post #12
Bottom bait straight out of the bag whenever possible. This way your hookbait matches exactly every other bait you have introduced to your swim. I went down the wafter route for a while but having seen fish feed in the edge don't buy in to the whole 'negating the weight of the hook' business....fish suck in so much other rubbish (silt, sticks, stones, weed etc) when they feed that I don't believe they know they're sucking in a hook. Too many people over complicate things these days IMO

In reply to Post #13
100% agree mate. Wafters are just another money spinner, £6 a pot. In my view you want the bait to act as naturally as possible, when carp come onto your spot and waft their pecks etc that "balanced bait" will be being slung all over the place, also a heavier bait will be more cumbersome and harder to eject. People get way too caught up in the latest trends and feel like they have to be doing it to catch fish. People overcomplicated stuff constantly, i understand how it can lead to innovative new ideas and products etc but i bet if you ask most anglers the reason they are using a certain rig in a certain way....they will have no idea and just say......i saw so and so using it on youtube or in a mag so just copied it.

In reply to Post #14
. . .dunno about that - personally believe wafters have their place but then I always over-glug mine (and usually don't bother to check them in the margin) so they're probably acting like bottom baits anyway. Once feeding carp do suck anything and everything up - I always bait up with multiple size baits (12/15/18mm / chops) on the assumption that I'm keeping them 'guessing' and therefore the hookbait (whether it be out of the bag or wafter) is just another random food item to be tested / eaten . . .

Re the OP I used to use pop ups (trimmed) to create snowman rigs but am lazy and prefer the convenience and 'match the hatch' presentation a wafter of the same label can provide . . .

In reply to Post #14
"balanced bait" will be being slung all over the placeThat's what I've always thought.
I've done it myself, balanced a bait and watch it provocatively sink through the water, very satisfying. But as soon as it's disturbed it will do as you say it'll be 'slung all over the place'
Bottom baits whenever possible for me

In reply to Post #16
Couldn't agree more.

In reply to Post #16
mmm - not sure a bottom bait is going to be massively 'less' slung about than a wafter or anything else for that matter if rejected. . big carp suck in and eject big stones with ease and deposit them wherever . . .are you suggesting 'weighting' your baits on this basis . . ?

I'm not convinced a balanced bait would get slung around. A ridiculously slow sinking bait, then yes. But surely all you are trying to achieve with a wafter is to negate the weight of the hook/rig so the bait actually behaves more like a free offering would, cos obviously they aren't attached to a rig.

In reply to Post #19
. . .exactomondo . . .

And if they're all different sizes / suck rates required anyway then this is the most important factor IMHO . . .

In reply to Post #19
Calling a bait a pop up suggest to me a very buoyant bait, a wafter to me suggests something that wafts about but I take your point about negating the weight of the hook and hook length, how you would calculate that when you fish in different depths and have different amounts of water pressure pushing down I'm not sure. Personally I can't be faffing and I'd only be worring that I hadn't negated properly and make the bait act unnaturally.
Each to their own but wherever possible I'm happy with hard on the bottom

In reply to Post #19
I think most of the time these wafter or critically balanced baits don't behave as people think anyway, due to being set up on the bank and then tested in a few inches of water and then cast out into a different depth and therefore water pressure

In reply to Post #22
. . .I also don't believe that when on the bottom they sit perfectly upright with the hook perfectly laid flat beneath (a la Korda / rig porn site photos etc)

As stated I glug them anyway (usually a sticky baits dumbell of some sort glugged to match my label / flavour profile) and this over time definitely makes them heavier, so in effect I'm probably using a mildy lighter bottom bait.

Isn't a wafter ,pop up a boilie anyhow

In reply to Post #24
. . .?

They're all boilies - a wafter is supposedly 'neutrally' buoyant, a pop-up is totally buoyant (although over time becomes a wafter and then eventually a water saturated bottom bait), a bottom bait is generally straight out of the bag and always sinks - however if left on the lake bed too long (depending on ingredients) it will float and rise up to the surface.

Just to confuse you if you carefully combine a pop-up and a bottom bait (snowman) this can create a neutrally buoyant bait . . . .which is basically also a wafter . . . . . . . . . . .

It's the title of this topic
At the end of the day they are all boilies popped up or not

In reply to Post #26
. . . .

Thanks for coming, see yourself out . . .

In reply to Post #18
are you suggesting 'weighting' your baits on this basis . . ?
No, for me it's just as much being stuck in my old ways, it's what I've always done and as Ian has pointed baits don't behave as we expect them anyway and that includes my bottom baits

In reply to Post #28
. . the argument for balanced / wafter baits is to try and get the presented bait to act like a bottom bait freebie but with a hook & rig attached . . .totally agree this is all probably total bs at the underwater end . . suppose its down to whatever gives you the most confidence . . !

In reply to Post #29
whatever gives you the most confidence . . !
Agreed, would never tell others what to do, just giving my thoughts

In reply to Post #30
I think there was a thread on this quite a while ago now. As well as the au natural look there was questions as to whether a wafter bait could shoot though the surrounding water column at 9.81 m/s quicker than a standard boiled bait, hit the carp in the pharyngeal teeth because it was sucking at a critically balanced bait, where as a boiled bait would not even touch the fishes lips lol

In reply to Post #31
where as a boiled bait would not even touch the fishes lips lol

True, I remember when not a single carp was caught until someone invented the the pop up. if only he had patented it