Over the years I've used ritchworth, Polaris and BAF pop up mixes.
Following on from a recent thread I've been thinking about making my own pop up mix from scratch, avoiding using micro bubbles if at all possible.
I'm thinking as the basic pop up mix
Calcium Cassinate
Rennet Cassien
Krill powder
Whey 80
Plus a few more goodies to make it a closer to a proper food based bait.
Do any of you bait buffs think that
A. It will actually result in a pop up
B. Roll or just become a sticky mess.
C. Will last out in the water or just dissolve.
I know I could knock up a standard bottom bait mix and chuck in a load of microspheres or make cork ball pop ups etc, but that's not what I'm wanting to achieve.
Can anyone make an educated guess of what's actually in say Polaris. I'm guessing it can't be that complicated. Certainly looks like just a blend of milks to my untrained eye.
PM if you prefer.
Thanks for any help you can give.
Cheers
Wayne.
Following on from a recent thread I've been thinking about making my own pop up mix from scratch, avoiding using micro bubbles if at all possible.
I'm thinking as the basic pop up mix
Calcium Cassinate
Rennet Cassien
Krill powder
Whey 80
Plus a few more goodies to make it a closer to a proper food based bait.
Do any of you bait buffs think that
A. It will actually result in a pop up
B. Roll or just become a sticky mess.
C. Will last out in the water or just dissolve.
I know I could knock up a standard bottom bait mix and chuck in a load of microspheres or make cork ball pop ups etc, but that's not what I'm wanting to achieve.
Can anyone make an educated guess of what's actually in say Polaris. I'm guessing it can't be that complicated. Certainly looks like just a blend of milks to my untrained eye.
PM if you prefer.
Thanks for any help you can give.
Cheers
Wayne.
Weirdly enough I was thinking the same thing and was going to ask the same question about making a top quality pop up mix. Be interested in seeing what the bait buffs have to say 👍🏻
In reply to Post #1
I've gone down that route before....expensive and not always successful, personally I'd look at Shilham's mixes, milk based, they don't use micro spheres, and as they roll pop up blanks for a lot of the big players etc. they are well proven.
Their Chod mix is very buoyant so with the addition of krill meal it won't affect that too much either. I would add a small amount of egg albumen to ensure a decent skinned bait.
I've gone down that route before....expensive and not always successful, personally I'd look at Shilham's mixes, milk based, they don't use micro spheres, and as they roll pop up blanks for a lot of the big players etc. they are well proven.
Their Chod mix is very buoyant so with the addition of krill meal it won't affect that too much either. I would add a small amount of egg albumen to ensure a decent skinned bait.
In reply to Post #3
Must be an art form to using shilhams mix. Was the worst for distorting for me. I'd imagine because it's so light it's easily affected. Or maybe a night in the fridge might help to firm it up
Must be an art form to using shilhams mix. Was the worst for distorting for me. I'd imagine because it's so light it's easily affected. Or maybe a night in the fridge might help to firm it up
In reply to Post #4
You don't boil it, just very gently simmer and they don't distort
You don't boil it, just very gently simmer and they don't distort
In reply to Post #3
This was my thinking
Calcium Cassinate - very light. Maybe use up to 15%
Rennet Cassien - not as light but more importantly not soluble I think
Krill powder - again very light. Perhaps use up to 15%
Whey 80 - used as a binder.
This I'm hoping would leave a decent margin for some soluble and insoluble additives whilst still resulting in a mix that actually pops up.
This was my thinking
Calcium Cassinate - very light. Maybe use up to 15%
Rennet Cassien - not as light but more importantly not soluble I think
Krill powder - again very light. Perhaps use up to 15%
Whey 80 - used as a binder.
This I'm hoping would leave a decent margin for some soluble and insoluble additives whilst still resulting in a mix that actually pops up.
In reply to Post #5
I tried that also. Turned off the heat, allowed the water to flat and simmered. Still distorted. They made nice pop ups and very buyount but just couldn't hold the shape.
I tried that also. Turned off the heat, allowed the water to flat and simmered. Still distorted. They made nice pop ups and very buyount but just couldn't hold the shape.
In reply to Post #4
Mix it, leave it overnight and then roll. I've dispensed with gun and just use the rolling table and rollaball... the old fashioned way😉 Roll a ball of paste, press to form a patty 2mm undersized and make sausages with the rollaball, roll with rolling table and then into balls. I have in the past also left them overnight to skin and dry prior to boiling. Trial and error at the end of the day I suppose.
Mix it, leave it overnight and then roll. I've dispensed with gun and just use the rolling table and rollaball... the old fashioned way😉 Roll a ball of paste, press to form a patty 2mm undersized and make sausages with the rollaball, roll with rolling table and then into balls. I have in the past also left them overnight to skin and dry prior to boiling. Trial and error at the end of the day I suppose.
In reply to Post #6
I would be worried about the Krill soaking in water in use.
Have you thought about sodium casinate and Soya isolate. The sod cas is probably the lightest ingredient available.
Also as you are ruling out spheres are you also ruling out Cork granules, I find them very useful.
I would be worried about the Krill soaking in water in use.
Have you thought about sodium casinate and Soya isolate. The sod cas is probably the lightest ingredient available.
Also as you are ruling out spheres are you also ruling out Cork granules, I find them very useful.
In reply to Post #7
No idea then, works fine for me. Not that it matters, I'm sure the fish won't mind a bit wonky bait
No idea then, works fine for me. Not that it matters, I'm sure the fish won't mind a bit wonky bait
In reply to Post #7
Do you need perfect round pop-ups?
I've already fished cubes, dumbels, odd shaped one, etc. They all produce baits.
Do you need perfect round pop-ups?
I've already fished cubes, dumbels, odd shaped one, etc. They all produce baits.
In reply to Post #11
Oh god no never been bothered personally. But it's more for consistency when I'm making them. Eliminated it by adding 5% cork dust ( 0.5-1mm )
Oh god no never been bothered personally. But it's more for consistency when I'm making them. Eliminated it by adding 5% cork dust ( 0.5-1mm )
In reply to Post #9
Hi Christian. Thank you for your reply. Do you know if the sodium cas is less soluble than krill meal? I'm worried about getting too much solubles in the mix, id imagine if I'm not careful it will roll and skin beautifully and then last about five minutes in the water!!
I haven't ruled out cork granules, but my experience of them in the past has been a bit hit and miss to say the least. I've played with it and had batches that seemed to work brilliantly at first but I think the cork took on water as they would then sink, but this was using a bottom bait mix as an alternative to making cork balls. I'm guess I'd be able to get away with less in the mix if it included lighter ingredients maybe.
Hi Christian. Thank you for your reply. Do you know if the sodium cas is less soluble than krill meal? I'm worried about getting too much solubles in the mix, id imagine if I'm not careful it will roll and skin beautifully and then last about five minutes in the water!!
I haven't ruled out cork granules, but my experience of them in the past has been a bit hit and miss to say the least. I've played with it and had batches that seemed to work brilliantly at first but I think the cork took on water as they would then sink, but this was using a bottom bait mix as an alternative to making cork balls. I'm guess I'd be able to get away with less in the mix if it included lighter ingredients maybe.
Someone out there must know what exactly is in Polaris or better still the old Ritchworth pouch mixes that were brilliant. Bob Baker was a member on one of my waters for years before he passed away, but although I have friends who fished with him all the time, I think I only ever saw him in passing and wasn't ever able to pick his brains. I hate relying on a commercially bought product for two reasons, firstly cos I have no idea what's in it and secondly because what if you do really well on something and then it's discontinued.
In reply to Post #7
You arent the only one to experience this with the Shilhams mixes mate, I had a nightmare with the last lot of chod mix I had off him...and I've been making bait years. Had a tub of Polaris so reverted to this and the baits came out great. People knock it but its actually a very user friendly mix
You arent the only one to experience this with the Shilhams mixes mate, I had a nightmare with the last lot of chod mix I had off him...and I've been making bait years. Had a tub of Polaris so reverted to this and the baits came out great. People knock it but its actually a very user friendly mix
In reply to Post #13
It's been a while since I've used sodium caseinate, it's not easy to work with as it's very sticky. I would not use much more than 10% once in a mi,x bound with egg I doubt it would be very soluble.
I played around with a pop up mix last year to try and increase the protein content but still used a proprietary mix. 3 parts each of pop up mix, cork granules and a calcium caseinate, whey pro, soya isolate, egg alb mix.
I then added one part of powdered attractors and palatents. Liquids were proven, well at least to me, flavour and eo combinations
Was bouyant enough but was it any more successful than a shop bought pop up mix plus high level flavour, I don't think so, will probably try it again but very expensive as I'm not making pop ups in any quantities.
It's been a while since I've used sodium caseinate, it's not easy to work with as it's very sticky. I would not use much more than 10% once in a mi,x bound with egg I doubt it would be very soluble.
I played around with a pop up mix last year to try and increase the protein content but still used a proprietary mix. 3 parts each of pop up mix, cork granules and a calcium caseinate, whey pro, soya isolate, egg alb mix.
I then added one part of powdered attractors and palatents. Liquids were proven, well at least to me, flavour and eo combinations
Was bouyant enough but was it any more successful than a shop bought pop up mix plus high level flavour, I don't think so, will probably try it again but very expensive as I'm not making pop ups in any quantities.
In reply to Post #1
From memory as I can't find my bait book, circa 1990.
Casein 30 mesh as the base 4 scoops
Casilan 2 scoops
Soya Isolate 2 scoops
Egg Replacer 2 scoops
I may have the ratios a bit out, Casein was definitely the most! This was for microwave pop-ups, the scoops were the little plastic ones in powder drinks.
From memory as I can't find my bait book, circa 1990.
Casein 30 mesh as the base 4 scoops
Casilan 2 scoops
Soya Isolate 2 scoops
Egg Replacer 2 scoops
I may have the ratios a bit out, Casein was definitely the most! This was for microwave pop-ups, the scoops were the little plastic ones in powder drinks.
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