Im tinkering with a nut mix and am conscious of its fat content. Ideally I want a bait that works well with minimal tweaks all year round but am unsure if I need to worry too much about its fat content. Any suggestions on keeping the fat content down when using nut meals and milks?
In reply to Post #1
I use Baf's peanut pro , 50% protein and only 12% fat , very low for a peanut protein rest of my mix is mainly low fat carbs and milks so it's well balanced
I use Baf's peanut pro , 50% protein and only 12% fat , very low for a peanut protein rest of my mix is mainly low fat carbs and milks so it's well balanced
In reply to Post #2
Thats going in my bait too
Thats going in my bait too
In reply to Post #1
Can i ask just why the fat content would matter to you?
Is it the fact of the colder months are supposedly an area of contention where the use of lipids/fats are considered a no go area in bait production?
The only reason i ask is for the mere fact that in nature virtually ALL animals seek high fat foods due to the fact that they are a prime energy and insulating source and spares the essential protein so that it can be used for growth and repair. Carp love fats.........They WILL eat them all year round.
Can i ask just why the fat content would matter to you?
Is it the fact of the colder months are supposedly an area of contention where the use of lipids/fats are considered a no go area in bait production?
The only reason i ask is for the mere fact that in nature virtually ALL animals seek high fat foods due to the fact that they are a prime energy and insulating source and spares the essential protein so that it can be used for growth and repair. Carp love fats.........They WILL eat them all year round.
In reply to Post #4
Dean
Personally I think the only limitation of high fat baits is our human mind and that old carp digestibility debate saying no, but finding out mother natures carp says yes.
They should not work, but time and time again they bring results, when the better designed / suited / banker lower fat baits don't produce.
Then secondly
The problem with high fat baits without careful consideration of quality binders is getting them to mix up nicely, roll and not fall apart and behave on a rolling table by hand, or in automated extenders and rolling machines.
You know those test mixes that makes you go
Or 
Dean
Personally I think the only limitation of high fat baits is our human mind and that old carp digestibility debate saying no, but finding out mother natures carp says yes.
They should not work, but time and time again they bring results, when the better designed / suited / banker lower fat baits don't produce.
Then secondly
The problem with high fat baits without careful consideration of quality binders is getting them to mix up nicely, roll and not fall apart and behave on a rolling table by hand, or in automated extenders and rolling machines.
You know those test mixes that makes you go
Or 
In reply to Post #2
What i know of bait making you could write on the back of a postage stamp.
But from reading various sources on here i know BAF are a well respected supplier.
One thing that struck me though is that BAF state 50% Protein and 12% Fat in their product.
But if you Google "Peanut Nutritional Value" then several sources state that it is scientifically recognised that Peanut is approximately 49% Fat and 26% Protein etc.
So that makes me question what BAF's supplier are putting in their product because it must be mixed with something else other than Peanut to achieve those nutritional values.
What i know of bait making you could write on the back of a postage stamp.
But from reading various sources on here i know BAF are a well respected supplier.
One thing that struck me though is that BAF state 50% Protein and 12% Fat in their product.
But if you Google "Peanut Nutritional Value" then several sources state that it is scientifically recognised that Peanut is approximately 49% Fat and 26% Protein etc.
So that makes me question what BAF's supplier are putting in their product because it must be mixed with something else other than Peanut to achieve those nutritional values.
In reply to Post #6
...or oil is extracted from the nuts and the BAF peanut meal is made from the byproduct
...or oil is extracted from the nuts and the BAF peanut meal is made from the byproduct
In reply to Post #7
Thank you
Thank you
In reply to Post #6
Also be mindful that the nuts are roasted before being ground which will remove a small amount of oil and improve flavour.
Oh yes Darren, i know exactly what you are talking about with those 
mixes. 
Also be mindful that the nuts are roasted before being ground which will remove a small amount of oil and improve flavour.
Oh yes Darren, i know exactly what you are talking about with those
mixes.
In reply to Post #9
I feel your pain Dean.
It is bad enough getting a 1 egg mix or a 1lb trial mix of mine wrong,
I feel your pain Dean.
It is bad enough getting a 1 egg mix or a 1lb trial mix of mine wrong,
If high fat nuts are so effective, why worry too much about keeping boilie fat contents so low?
In reply to Post #11
With Nuts you cannot change their crunchy texture and oil content which is their biggest asset.
TBH the biggest benefit with boilies is that you can adjust it to be, higher protein, more soluble, soft or firm or like rock hard, whatever you want it to be.
A lower fat boilie diet is better long term for our carp.
With Nuts you cannot change their crunchy texture and oil content which is their biggest asset.
TBH the biggest benefit with boilies is that you can adjust it to be, higher protein, more soluble, soft or firm or like rock hard, whatever you want it to be.
A lower fat boilie diet is better long term for our carp.
In reply to Post #12
Thanks for the reply Scaley. Yes indeed, any fat not utilised as energy would be stored as fat within the fish. It would therefore be quite worrying if a commercial “high fat” boilie was released for Joe Bloggs and his mates to purchase and deploy kgs into waters. However, a home bait maker has the option to quite easily produce a high fat boilie. Such could be used in moderation with fish welfare in mind, and potentially provide some degree of edge.
Thanks for the reply Scaley. Yes indeed, any fat not utilised as energy would be stored as fat within the fish. It would therefore be quite worrying if a commercial “high fat” boilie was released for Joe Bloggs and his mates to purchase and deploy kgs into waters. However, a home bait maker has the option to quite easily produce a high fat boilie. Such could be used in moderation with fish welfare in mind, and potentially provide some degree of edge.
In reply to Post #13
There already is a ‘high fat boilie', a large halibut pellet. Spodded out by the bucket load in some lakes.
But boilies, especially decent quality ones, because they cost more, people think 🤔 before chucking loads in.
Oils and fats used sensibly in baits can be attractive, tasty, and useful. and help utilise protein digestion more effectively.
It is a balancing act, like most things, to achieve your desired end result in your own angling or bait making.
There already is a ‘high fat boilie', a large halibut pellet. Spodded out by the bucket load in some lakes.
But boilies, especially decent quality ones, because they cost more, people think 🤔 before chucking loads in.
Oils and fats used sensibly in baits can be attractive, tasty, and useful. and help utilise protein digestion more effectively.
It is a balancing act, like most things, to achieve your desired end result in your own angling or bait making.
I've always thought that fat / lipids were ok in the summer but act as a binder in cold water. For me attraction has to be the first imperative. Nutrition is a secondary element of a good bait. Catch them first. Feed them second.
In reply to Post #14
Good point on the halibut pellets.
Good point on the halibut pellets.
In reply to Post #4
Good post Dean and I totally agree. Energy is everything in terms of food, without it we cant process other functions.
Good post Dean and I totally agree. Energy is everything in terms of food, without it we cant process other functions.
In reply to Post #17
Thanks Lincs.
It is something that baffles me, how the need to emulsify, which incidently just makes smaller drops and the fixation on emitting fats from baits as the weather cools
As previously mentioned the energy from fats is a far superior source as opposed to carbs. Incidentally my best 3 winters and i am talking over 70 winter fish, have come to heavy baiting with fishmeals. The addition of Wheatgerm alone is enough to help with digestion. A few enzymes thrown in will also make nutrients more readily available to the fish on first transit. All the talk about Trypsin inhibitors means what exactly? That a carp can't digest things? No, merely slow the process down just a little. Still, it sounds intelligent and people might think you now what your talking about eh? lol.
Lipids, fats, call them what you will are instinctively sought after. The circle of natural life within any body of water and the addition of anglers baits address that balance perfectly. Only man made over stocked holes in the ground will suffer any deficiences of a particular nutrient hence, in these circumstances the banning of nuts. Rightly or wrongly.
Thanks Lincs.
It is something that baffles me, how the need to emulsify, which incidently just makes smaller drops and the fixation on emitting fats from baits as the weather cools
As previously mentioned the energy from fats is a far superior source as opposed to carbs. Incidentally my best 3 winters and i am talking over 70 winter fish, have come to heavy baiting with fishmeals. The addition of Wheatgerm alone is enough to help with digestion. A few enzymes thrown in will also make nutrients more readily available to the fish on first transit. All the talk about Trypsin inhibitors means what exactly? That a carp can't digest things? No, merely slow the process down just a little. Still, it sounds intelligent and people might think you now what your talking about eh? lol.Lipids, fats, call them what you will are instinctively sought after. The circle of natural life within any body of water and the addition of anglers baits address that balance perfectly. Only man made over stocked holes in the ground will suffer any deficiences of a particular nutrient hence, in these circumstances the banning of nuts. Rightly or wrongly.
In reply to Post #18
Good point.
What's useful doesn't also need to be attractive.
What's attractive doesn't also need to be useful.
Good point.
What's useful doesn't also need to be attractive.
What's attractive doesn't also need to be useful.
In reply to Post #18
The obsession I see with some to make virtually fat free baits drives me mad.. Take lamlac vs skimmed milk powder for instance.. One vertically fat free and the other circa 24% and which one does the most damage!! Lol the trypsin inhibitor thing makes me laugh too, a small proportion of the food stuff may be harder to digest but the rest is still utilised with gusto. It's the old, what gets said by someone becomes gospel thing..
The obsession I see with some to make virtually fat free baits drives me mad.. Take lamlac vs skimmed milk powder for instance.. One vertically fat free and the other circa 24% and which one does the most damage!! Lol the trypsin inhibitor thing makes me laugh too, a small proportion of the food stuff may be harder to digest but the rest is still utilised with gusto. It's the old, what gets said by someone becomes gospel thing..
In reply to Post #20
We all know most foods DO taste better with a decent fat and sugar content
to us, lambs and maybe even carp?
We all know most foods DO taste better with a decent fat and sugar content
to us, lambs and maybe even carp?
In reply to Post #21
Well tbh, I'm convinced after doing a winter on a local water and used the same birdfood base with skimmed at 20% and another batch with lamlac at 20%..same swim etc etc and the lamlac massively outdone the skimmed... My conclusion was that the carp liked lamlac more than skimmed milk powder.. Not very scientific but imo conclusive.. Perhaps I should have also added that the lamlac bait also has ground nut oil as well
Well tbh, I'm convinced after doing a winter on a local water and used the same birdfood base with skimmed at 20% and another batch with lamlac at 20%..same swim etc etc and the lamlac massively outdone the skimmed... My conclusion was that the carp liked lamlac more than skimmed milk powder.. Not very scientific but imo conclusive.. Perhaps I should have also added that the lamlac bait also has ground nut oil as well
In reply to Post #18
Love reading your thinking Dean when you are not falling out with somebody over bait lol, brilliant
Love reading your thinking Dean when you are not falling out with somebody over bait lol, brilliant
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