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Shock leaders and distance casting (31 posts / 7,940 views)
tintek tintek
Posts: 31
Post #1 28 Apr 2020 07:19
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I've only been carp fishing for around 4 years now and recently moved to Hungary where most of my fishing is at range 90m+. At first i stuck with my standard set up using 12lb daiwa sensor which i absolutely love and really didn't want to change. However as my fishing progressed i wanted to use PVA bags and heavier leads so moved over to Shimano technium invisitec 15lb. This ended badly with crack offs, ridiculous stretch and terrible line twist.

So I've moved on to shimano technium black 12lb and decided to use arma kord sinking 50lb as a shock leader. My question is how do i keep the knot to the back of the spool and should i change my casting style? do i need to be smoother/slower? if so how to maintain distance? Also I'm worried about the knot catching the eye rings, does anyone have this problem?

any suggestions or comments appreciated.
darkoL darkoL
Posts: 1,822
Post #2 28 Apr 2020 07:30
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In reply to Post #1
Go with thiner line and 35-40lb braid as shocklider... Wack it full speed no worries...
tintek tintek
Posts: 31
Post #3 28 Apr 2020 07:49
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In reply to Post #2
would you say technium 12lb is not thin enough? 0.32mm

I wanted to keep a fairly strong mainline as there are some 20kg+ fish in the lakes out here and i don't want to be caught short.

I opted for technium as it has less stretch than other lines.
InTheMargin
Posts: 451
Post #4 28 Apr 2020 08:05
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In reply to Post #1
What rod and reel are you using?
kevan67 kevan67
Posts: 136
Post #5 28 Apr 2020 08:07
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In reply to Post #3
Have a look at the Terry Edmonds videos on You tube for distance casting.

PB products also do a low stretch 18lb line that's 0.3mm and the Terry Eustace Pro Distance in 12lb was very good.

Lots of good lines out there now.
Pooter
Posts: 395
Post #6 28 Apr 2020 08:09
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In reply to Post #1
Reel in as per usual and when you see the leader knot approach the reel just place the knot by hand at the back of the spool then carry on winding. As long as you leave the knot unencumbered it wont snag or catch as there's nothing for it to catch on. Try to make your leader knot as neat and unobtrusive as possible.
framey framey
Posts: 5,319
Post #7 28 Apr 2020 08:10
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In reply to Post #1
As the leader knot is only somewhere between 4 and 6 turns of the reel it is easy enough to just move it into position before you cast it if you Think you need to
tintek tintek
Posts: 31
Post #8 28 Apr 2020 08:10
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In reply to Post #4
Daiwa Longbow X45 3.75TC
Penn Conflict II LC 7000
tintek tintek
Posts: 31
Post #9 28 Apr 2020 08:13
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In reply to Post #6
thanks, this is what i have done but wasn't sure if it was the norm.

I used the Albright special but to be honest they haven't come out super neat so i may give it another go.

Any other knot suggestions?
tintek tintek
Posts: 31
Post #10 28 Apr 2020 08:14
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In reply to Post #5
i did look at the PB control mono but ended up with technium purely based on the stretch factor.
Pooter
Posts: 395
Post #11 28 Apr 2020 08:18
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In reply to Post #9
There is the FG knot but it's not (ha!) one I've tried though it does get favourable reviews.
There are youtube videos and other sources of information out there for tying it.

PS: Technium Black is a great line!
framey framey
Posts: 5,319
Post #12 28 Apr 2020 08:20
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In reply to Post #9
Mahn knot
Or you could do the back to back grinder as a lot of people use that
vinniecole vinniecole
Posts: 4,868
Post #13 28 Apr 2020 09:22
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In reply to Post #12
For leader material, iv put on about 4 rod lengths of esp synchro 18lb attached to my 10lb line. Iv never really done much spodding, especially no more then 60 odd yards, mainly 20. Would 18 synchro be strong enough? Went to beach few days ago and was whacking out a 4onz lead and hitting around 110 but wasn't sure it would be ok for a spomb
Halfcentury
Posts: 1,284
Post #14 28 Apr 2020 09:29
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In reply to Post #9
If you are at the start of the learning curve with distance casting I think your choices are sensible ones. 12lb quality mainline and 50lb leader give you lots of security to play and learn. Easiest knot that is secure and neat to pass through rings without problems is back to back grinner. Lots to learn, lots to try but this is a sound starting point. Critical point is the length of leader, rule of thumb, 10m. This will give you about 6 turns of leader material round your reel spool. DON'T forget a finger stall.
framey framey
Posts: 5,319
Post #15 28 Apr 2020 09:29
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In reply to Post #13
Sea fishing is a different kettle of fish imo
There isn't likely to be anyone else within casting distance out in front of you

I used to spod with 8lb line with a leader and never had a problem as the shock of the cast is why you have the leader the main line after can be anything
The General rule of thumb is 10 lb for every oz of lead
darkoL darkoL
Posts: 1,822
Post #16 28 Apr 2020 10:04
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In reply to Post #3
That is up to you to decide as you know the water, lay out, snags etc... Thinner the line easier is to achieve distance... Without snags and with smart use of brake on the reel size of the fish doesnt matter much...
Mart74 Mart74
Posts: 3,509
Post #17 28 Apr 2020 10:41
0
good advice in post 14.

You're set up is good. Just make sure you have a good length of leader and the knot (I use back to back grinner) is at the bottom of the spool before casting.
vinniecole vinniecole
Posts: 4,868
Post #18 28 Apr 2020 11:04
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In reply to Post #15
Sorry wasn't very clear. It's for spodding but as I live about 30secs from the beach so I went Over there to have a cast
tintek tintek
Posts: 31
Post #19 28 Apr 2020 11:06
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In reply to Post #14
thanks for the advise, i will definitely change to a back to back grinner as my albright is messy to say the least.
tintek tintek
Posts: 31
Post #20 28 Apr 2020 11:13
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In reply to Post #16
most of the waters i fish have minimal snags and little to no weed.

I changed to the penn conflict for the smooth drag compared to my previous penn affinity.

Also the longbow is reasonably soft in the tip so im comfortable playing fish with it.

Largest I've had with this set up is a 12kg common but that was on the 15lb invisitec line.
albert12
Posts: 7
Post #21 29 Apr 2020 08:15
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In reply to Post #20
Daiwa Longbow X45 3.75TC
Penn Conflict II LC 7000
Chuffy Chuffy
Posts: 6,794
Post #22 29 Apr 2020 09:12
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In reply to Post #19
When tying mono mainline to a braid leader I have found the Mahin Knot to be a much neater option once you get it right
yonny yonny
Posts: 7,934
Post #23 29 Apr 2020 09:15
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In reply to Post #22
Likewise.
Halfcentury
Posts: 1,284
Post #24 29 Apr 2020 10:11
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In reply to Post #23
Can't argue the Mahin knot is a neat knot and the tag ends exit in optimum position for casting. I think the difference in casting performance is marginal when joining 12lb mono to braid. However if you are at the beginning of the learning curve I feel it is better to use a knot that you are almost certain to be familiar with and is safe and reliable. The guy has made a sensible decision and can move on from there. One of the problems of modern carping, too many choices, too much info, too much gear, leads to mistakes and confusion while people are learning.
When I was joining 40lb mono to 12lb mono on the beach I always used a leader(Mahin) knot because of the tag ends and it kept the knot as small as possible. Now we have tapered leaders.
tintek tintek
Posts: 31
Post #25 29 Apr 2020 10:52
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In reply to Post #24
" One of the problems of modern carping, too many choices, too much info, too much gear, leads to mistakes and confusion while people are learning."

Exactly this! i find myself more often than not over complicating decisions on the bank which inevitably lead to stress and wasted time.
Halfcentury
Posts: 1,284
Post #26 29 Apr 2020 11:21
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In reply to Post #25
If you realise that you are on your way to simple effective fishing.
The rod, reel, line and leader you have plus a 3.5oz/4.5ozlead will get you to 100m and should with some thought and practice get you to 120m with some consistency and accuracy. They will cast considerably further but that will be down to technique.
To improve distance casting be brutally honest with yourself. The distance cast is a TIGHT line between the lead and rod tip. Using the line clip can be surprisingly optimistic.
Personally I would keep casting practice separate from fishing and then fish at a distance you are confident at. Take the risks, make the mistakes and experience the disasters in practice and then enjoy your fishing.
Tight lines.
noj
Posts: 11,459
Social photographer...
Social photographer... Post #27 29 Apr 2020 11:56
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In reply to Post #11
The fg is good but only with braid to nylon and it's run in reverse to a braid shock leader set up for spinning/popping. So like 60lb braid to 80lb fluoro, the fact you can whip the knot to pass the guides nicely with butch line is the bonus.
Plenty of knots can get over the stated bs of 12lb labelled technium
Considering a factory longbow has probably melted at about 5lb of pressure with the leader knot in the tip ring i wouldn't be too concerned about the knot, the name suggests a shockleader knot endures a lot more than reality.
Just needs getting through the guides easily and not collecting masses of lake bed.
Halfcentury
Posts: 1,284
Post #28 29 Apr 2020 12:26
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In reply to Post #27
I'm very impressed but I've got no idea where you're going with this. Mind you I'm 64 and way behind.
noj
Posts: 11,459
Social photographer...
Social photographer... Post #30 29 Apr 2020 12:42
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In reply to Post #28
I'm saying that whatever knot holds up and is easiest to tie, just use that
And that while the fg knot is good for it's purpose, it's unnecessary
Better suited to a heavy fluoro or mono leader with braid mainline
Halfcentury
Posts: 1,284
Post #31 29 Apr 2020 13:26
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In reply to Post #30
Only thing I need to know now is what the fg knot is and all will be clear.
Jslinn Jslinn
Posts: 2,403
Post #32 29 Apr 2020 14:26
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In reply to Post #8
I've been lucky that I've not had to use leaders I did many years ago when I had smaller reels.
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