ive currently been making a hnv style fishmeal with a milk content of
5% wpc80
5% acid
5% rennet
and after a short boil of 90 secs for 18mm baits they come out perfectly untill i get about 3 hours init the drying stage, then the baits begin to get a hard skin and become almost dry looking, but still remain super soft inside ive tried lowering the milks no joy then dropping the acid and still had a similar result. it's driving me crazy. dose any1 else suffer this problem, i see alot of people dry their baits over night and dont get a hard dry skin on their baits. what can i do to combat this? or is it just something that happens when using milks. or am i missing something?
5% wpc80
5% acid
5% rennet
and after a short boil of 90 secs for 18mm baits they come out perfectly untill i get about 3 hours init the drying stage, then the baits begin to get a hard skin and become almost dry looking, but still remain super soft inside ive tried lowering the milks no joy then dropping the acid and still had a similar result. it's driving me crazy. dose any1 else suffer this problem, i see alot of people dry their baits over night and dont get a hard dry skin on their baits. what can i do to combat this? or is it just something that happens when using milks. or am i missing something?
In reply to Post #1
Ghost what exactly are you trying to achieve firstly ?
Do you intentionally want them super soft in the middle with a skinned outer, or something firmer that might withstand being used in a throwing stick ?
Depends on the other ingredients in the base mix as well.
All boilies once cooked, will over various drying time/s, absorb their external moisture, and the internal moisture, causing them to firm up and harden.
Ghost what exactly are you trying to achieve firstly ?
Do you intentionally want them super soft in the middle with a skinned outer, or something firmer that might withstand being used in a throwing stick ?
Depends on the other ingredients in the base mix as well.
All boilies once cooked, will over various drying time/s, absorb their external moisture, and the internal moisture, causing them to firm up and harden.
In reply to Post #2
so basically i want a softish bait ,but i dont want a rock hard skin/shell on the bait wich i seem to get with this mix. what im confused about is i look at others baits none off them seem to have a hard skin on them its more moist and consistent with the rest of bait. where mine on the other hand has a hard shell then super soft in the middle. i have some of kenny gates bait in the freezer his receptor marine and his bait is totally different feel texture wise i want to know what causeing this hard skin with my bait is it the milks? it must be coz i carnt see anything else that would cause this. another thing is almost everyone i speak to drys there baits over night if i do that then i end up with a really dry looking bait with a skin like stone. i reason i bothered about drying times is if you are able to dry some of the moisture out of your bait im not talking loads just abit and your bait is perfect texture after that then that's perfect in my eyes, because if you carnt dry your bait out at all after cooking without them drying up on you then and you just freeze them straight away then when you come to use them for your next session then they just guna dry up on you again if that makes sense the fact i have put them straight in the freezer only delay the bait eventually drying out on me and going hard again if that makes sence. i did speak to another guy who owns a bait company he said that my bait could be to salty thats why it's skining and drying up on me but im not sure?
lt 94 30%
cpsp90 10%
krill meal 5%
wpc80 5%
acid 5%
rennet 5%
C.L.O 10%
semo 10%
full fat soya 10%
liver 2.5%
yeast 2.5%
plus low level attractors and spices to make up the rest
so basically i want a softish bait ,but i dont want a rock hard skin/shell on the bait wich i seem to get with this mix. what im confused about is i look at others baits none off them seem to have a hard skin on them its more moist and consistent with the rest of bait. where mine on the other hand has a hard shell then super soft in the middle. i have some of kenny gates bait in the freezer his receptor marine and his bait is totally different feel texture wise i want to know what causeing this hard skin with my bait is it the milks? it must be coz i carnt see anything else that would cause this. another thing is almost everyone i speak to drys there baits over night if i do that then i end up with a really dry looking bait with a skin like stone. i reason i bothered about drying times is if you are able to dry some of the moisture out of your bait im not talking loads just abit and your bait is perfect texture after that then that's perfect in my eyes, because if you carnt dry your bait out at all after cooking without them drying up on you then and you just freeze them straight away then when you come to use them for your next session then they just guna dry up on you again if that makes sense the fact i have put them straight in the freezer only delay the bait eventually drying out on me and going hard again if that makes sence. i did speak to another guy who owns a bait company he said that my bait could be to salty thats why it's skining and drying up on me but im not sure?
lt 94 30%
cpsp90 10%
krill meal 5%
wpc80 5%
acid 5%
rennet 5%
C.L.O 10%
semo 10%
full fat soya 10%
liver 2.5%
yeast 2.5%
plus low level attractors and spices to make up the rest
In reply to Post #3
Maybe try less eggs and more liquids/water to compensate
Maybe try less eggs and more liquids/water to compensate
In reply to Post #4
yeah was thinking that but there is a fair amount of liquids in there allready tbh. the thing is ive been using the bait and had some great results onit aswell, it is soluble snd is one of the best baits ive used lol but it just isn't pleasing me look and feel wise ino thats abit backwards and aslong as it works that should be all that matters, but i want it perfect how i want it to be, and to work aswell lol i was hopeing their was something small i could change to help stop this and then i would be super happy with everything potentially a bait for life. ive just got a ocd perfectionist personality.
but one thing i do kno is my mix isit that far off the baffs tropamino basemix same levels of milks. i havnt rolled it but id dare to say that dosnt suffer the same problems or maybe it dose i dont know? i suppose what is happing isn't a problem per say but it is to me as thats not the texture or outer feel/moisture im after. i can only explain the baits as if i put them in a popup pot they would rattle around loudly but you get one out the press it its super soft i would explain it as having a hard shell almost. its like a have got 10% blood plasma in there or something wich i ovs havnt.
this weekend im guna drop the milks completely and see if that sorts it. wich im pretty sure it will. buti want the milks in there ffs its being catching so well.
do the casiens act differently to wpc80?
yeah was thinking that but there is a fair amount of liquids in there allready tbh. the thing is ive been using the bait and had some great results onit aswell, it is soluble snd is one of the best baits ive used lol but it just isn't pleasing me look and feel wise ino thats abit backwards and aslong as it works that should be all that matters, but i want it perfect how i want it to be, and to work aswell lol i was hopeing their was something small i could change to help stop this and then i would be super happy with everything potentially a bait for life. ive just got a ocd perfectionist personality.
but one thing i do kno is my mix isit that far off the baffs tropamino basemix same levels of milks. i havnt rolled it but id dare to say that dosnt suffer the same problems or maybe it dose i dont know? i suppose what is happing isn't a problem per say but it is to me as thats not the texture or outer feel/moisture im after. i can only explain the baits as if i put them in a popup pot they would rattle around loudly but you get one out the press it its super soft i would explain it as having a hard shell almost. its like a have got 10% blood plasma in there or something wich i ovs havnt.
this weekend im guna drop the milks completely and see if that sorts it. wich im pretty sure it will. buti want the milks in there ffs its being catching so well.
do the casiens act differently to wpc80?
This message has been suppressed by a moderator.
In reply to Post #6
tbh i am only doing little test batches so they air out and dry pretty rapid compared to loads drying together at once in a tray. plus i dry them in a place outside in the shade but its got a through breeze constantly so that could be not helping.
i think i might try dropping the milks down to 5% up the oil content from 15ml per kg to 20ml and only give them a 1hour or 2 max after cooking to dry and see how i get on hopefully that stops it. ill get there in the end.
tbh i am only doing little test batches so they air out and dry pretty rapid compared to loads drying together at once in a tray. plus i dry them in a place outside in the shade but its got a through breeze constantly so that could be not helping.
i think i might try dropping the milks down to 5% up the oil content from 15ml per kg to 20ml and only give them a 1hour or 2 max after cooking to dry and see how i get on hopefully that stops it. ill get there in the end.
Have you tried making the mix wetter and letting it absorb for half hour. Instead of making the paste ready to roll
In reply to Post #8
yea so there's 90ml per kg (not including egg) of liquids dat go in to the bait and yeah i leave the paste to sit for about 20mins - 30mins before it gets rolled
yea so there's 90ml per kg (not including egg) of liquids dat go in to the bait and yeah i leave the paste to sit for about 20mins - 30mins before it gets rolled
I experienced the same thing with a mix like that. In the end, i dropped the Casein and lowered the WPC 80 to 30g per kilo. I wanted a firmish cooked through boilie, but was a tad on the softer side once dried and thawed out... if that makes sense!
The problem i see nowadays, is so many commmercial baits contain a milk replacer and a small ammount of whey gel as the sole milk content. I think we are getting used to a certain softness, look and texture of boilies in the mainstream.
The problem i see nowadays, is so many commmercial baits contain a milk replacer and a small ammount of whey gel as the sole milk content. I think we are getting used to a certain softness, look and texture of boilies in the mainstream.
In reply to Post #10
yea yur bang on! just rolled a batch i droped the casein out completely and used wpc80 at 5% and it has defo helped.
yea yur bang on! just rolled a batch i droped the casein out completely and used wpc80 at 5% and it has defo helped.
In reply to Post #11
When I dropped the levels of Caseins and WPC80 to levels of 5% or under, almost minimal to 2%, you can still get good gelling & binding abilities, opened my eyes up, and made things a bit cheaper!
Also with careful balancing of a calf milk replacer, and various carbs, semo, maize flour, ground rice for example, you can make it firmish, but not too hard a bait, and nice to crumb up between thumb and fingers.
The sweet spot, I found, on average for solubility is between 20 to 30%, however stickiness permitting whilst rolling, can be an issue if levels are higher, also oil content can help or hinder things as well.
Trouble is, you are probably a bit like me, you enjoy making and catching on a home made bait, but you are using Kenny's bait, which I know from friends that his R1 is a great bit of bait.
But financially, it may cost more to buy in the ingredients, your time to mix and roll it, than it costs to buy it ready rolled from a reputable source
good fun though.
When I dropped the levels of Caseins and WPC80 to levels of 5% or under, almost minimal to 2%, you can still get good gelling & binding abilities, opened my eyes up, and made things a bit cheaper!
Also with careful balancing of a calf milk replacer, and various carbs, semo, maize flour, ground rice for example, you can make it firmish, but not too hard a bait, and nice to crumb up between thumb and fingers.
The sweet spot, I found, on average for solubility is between 20 to 30%, however stickiness permitting whilst rolling, can be an issue if levels are higher, also oil content can help or hinder things as well.
Trouble is, you are probably a bit like me, you enjoy making and catching on a home made bait, but you are using Kenny's bait, which I know from friends that his R1 is a great bit of bait.
But financially, it may cost more to buy in the ingredients, your time to mix and roll it, than it costs to buy it ready rolled from a reputable source
good fun though.
In reply to Post #12
yea tbh honest kennys bait is propa decent, but yur right i love messing around with my own baits and to be fair iv had alot of success on my baits aswell. but like i said before just weren't loving the look and feel of it before it goes in water which really shudnt matter but uno, but weren't anything major wrong with it just had a slight skin and didnt like being air dried. but it works really well and when i test it in a glass its soluble and about 12 hours u can hardly see the bait in the glass its that cloudy 24 hours its totally cloudy carnt see anything. and when i get the bait out of the glass its still it tack not split or mushy yet its pumping out and realising. but this mix ive bin playing with levels of solubles for about a year now and the mix i started off on, was on the egde of what's possible to roll must of been 30% ish maybe abit more when u acount for semi soluble ingredients. it had 15% cpsp90 but i was using whey gel blood plamsa and caseins to keep the solubles at bay and that would start splitting about 8-12 hours in by 24 was totally opened up but if you used the bait matchman style kept in goin in toping up the swim it was deadly or if your just doing a quick ova night session it was perfect coz its working for you straight away. but anyway im waffling lol
but i have never used milkreplacers or lamlac any thing like that only ever used expensive milks but i think im guna have a little play see what happens lol.
any recommendations or advice on the cheaper milks in terms of me maybe adding a some to my mix to help get that softer texture and a nice finger squeeze and mush/crumble/smudge lol
yea tbh honest kennys bait is propa decent, but yur right i love messing around with my own baits and to be fair iv had alot of success on my baits aswell. but like i said before just weren't loving the look and feel of it before it goes in water which really shudnt matter but uno, but weren't anything major wrong with it just had a slight skin and didnt like being air dried. but it works really well and when i test it in a glass its soluble and about 12 hours u can hardly see the bait in the glass its that cloudy 24 hours its totally cloudy carnt see anything. and when i get the bait out of the glass its still it tack not split or mushy yet its pumping out and realising. but this mix ive bin playing with levels of solubles for about a year now and the mix i started off on, was on the egde of what's possible to roll must of been 30% ish maybe abit more when u acount for semi soluble ingredients. it had 15% cpsp90 but i was using whey gel blood plamsa and caseins to keep the solubles at bay and that would start splitting about 8-12 hours in by 24 was totally opened up but if you used the bait matchman style kept in goin in toping up the swim it was deadly or if your just doing a quick ova night session it was perfect coz its working for you straight away. but anyway im waffling lol
but i have never used milkreplacers or lamlac any thing like that only ever used expensive milks but i think im guna have a little play see what happens lol.
any recommendations or advice on the cheaper milks in terms of me maybe adding a some to my mix to help get that softer texture and a nice finger squeeze and mush/crumble/smudge lol
In reply to Post #13
I have personally used Provimi SCA Multimilk Powder. 5Kg for about £30 to £35
Crude protein 23%,
Crude fat 23%,
Crude fibre 0%,
Crude ash 6.4%,
Calcium 0.84%, Phosphorus 0.63%, Sodium 0.47%, Vit A 65000iu/kg, Vit D3 2000iu/kg.
and also
Shine Ewe Reka, lamb milk replacer. 4.5 kg tub for about £20 to £25.00
Composition
Protein = 23%
Fat = 25%
Fibre = 0.05
Ash = 8%
Try to find a local stockist to save on postage costs
I have personally used Provimi SCA Multimilk Powder. 5Kg for about £30 to £35
Crude protein 23%,
Crude fat 23%,
Crude fibre 0%,
Crude ash 6.4%,
Calcium 0.84%, Phosphorus 0.63%, Sodium 0.47%, Vit A 65000iu/kg, Vit D3 2000iu/kg.
and also
Shine Ewe Reka, lamb milk replacer. 4.5 kg tub for about £20 to £25.00
Composition
Protein = 23%
Fat = 25%
Fibre = 0.05
Ash = 8%
Try to find a local stockist to save on postage costs