In reply to Post #92
I listened to DM's "BFM recipe" and was slightly taken aback. Then I found an old Nutrabaits catalogue from the early 90's with a big article by Dave on the development of BFM. At no point in that article does he mention some of the milks he talks about in the podcast being in the bait.
My take on this, is that what he initially developed was probably already too expensive to be a viable option to be sold by Nutrabaits, so it was modified with "lesser quality" milks to enable it to be sold. In that form, it can still be made in very similar way to the Nutrabaits sold version.
I listened to DM's "BFM recipe" and was slightly taken aback. Then I found an old Nutrabaits catalogue from the early 90's with a big article by Dave on the development of BFM. At no point in that article does he mention some of the milks he talks about in the podcast being in the bait.
My take on this, is that what he initially developed was probably already too expensive to be a viable option to be sold by Nutrabaits, so it was modified with "lesser quality" milks to enable it to be sold. In that form, it can still be made in very similar way to the Nutrabaits sold version.
In reply to Post #86
Fishmeals, milks, cereals are all superior to what they were back then. Fact.
That's a bold statement which to be honest I don't think is fact. I doubt Casein or caseinate are any different at all, but back in the day lactalbumin was the go to Whey product, and I would use it now over WPC80, but I do concede the advantage is not worth the price difference.
Robin Red is nothing like the product it was when BFM came out, and none of the CLO copies are anything like the sluis original.
As for fishmeal, as a bait ingredient I would go for the three fishmeal combination of white fish/Sardine and Anchovy/caplin over Lt94 every time. The data sheet might say Lt94 is better but my results have consistently showed otherwise. Predigested FM wasn't in use at the time but yes that is better.
Fishmeals, milks, cereals are all superior to what they were back then. Fact.
That's a bold statement which to be honest I don't think is fact. I doubt Casein or caseinate are any different at all, but back in the day lactalbumin was the go to Whey product, and I would use it now over WPC80, but I do concede the advantage is not worth the price difference.
Robin Red is nothing like the product it was when BFM came out, and none of the CLO copies are anything like the sluis original.
As for fishmeal, as a bait ingredient I would go for the three fishmeal combination of white fish/Sardine and Anchovy/caplin over Lt94 every time. The data sheet might say Lt94 is better but my results have consistently showed otherwise. Predigested FM wasn't in use at the time but yes that is better.
In reply to Post #94
"The data sheet might say Lt94 is better but my results have consistently showed otherwise"
The best one is the one that fish like eating. Maybe they are sick of the taste of LT94.........*
*Yes, I know the makeup of it changes
"The data sheet might say Lt94 is better but my results have consistently showed otherwise"
The best one is the one that fish like eating. Maybe they are sick of the taste of LT94.........*
*Yes, I know the makeup of it changes
In reply to Post #93
I did find it suprising that he slagged their mixes off - "4 seasons mix? Yeah, that's how long it took to catch a fish on it"
I did find it suprising that he slagged their mixes off - "4 seasons mix? Yeah, that's how long it took to catch a fish on it"
In reply to Post #94
Caseins are of a high grade now. Most people who sold lactalbumin where selling WPC80 in the bags which is common knowledge.
CLO nowadays I think comes in a better format, nice and coarse with no where for bread crumb to hide, it can then be ground if you do wish. I also believe there are better birdfood in general now especially if you look abroad.
Robin Red in my opinion, is a dye. They took out the main catching ingredient long ago, the only reason I still use it is because it's what the bait was developed with. I'm hoping to mix a proprietary version much superior.
Fishmeals are night and day. Easily more consistent products now. As for the enzyme treated ones they're some of the best ingredients you can buy. What's your reasoning for your blend being superior I'm genuinely interested?
Caseins are of a high grade now. Most people who sold lactalbumin where selling WPC80 in the bags which is common knowledge.
CLO nowadays I think comes in a better format, nice and coarse with no where for bread crumb to hide, it can then be ground if you do wish. I also believe there are better birdfood in general now especially if you look abroad.
Robin Red in my opinion, is a dye. They took out the main catching ingredient long ago, the only reason I still use it is because it's what the bait was developed with. I'm hoping to mix a proprietary version much superior.
Fishmeals are night and day. Easily more consistent products now. As for the enzyme treated ones they're some of the best ingredients you can buy. What's your reasoning for your blend being superior I'm genuinely interested?
In reply to Post #90
Nice one mate
Nice one mate
In reply to Post #97
Mozzie,
I'll take your word for the milk proteins I have no way of knowing but the specifications haven't changed to my memory.
Clo versions nowadays are really egg foods, the original clo had milk, yeast and meat products in it, alongside the breadcrumbs. You are right there are some good birdfoods out there but I think in bfm and many other baits they are included for functional reasons not nutritional. The original Robin Red was a fantastic ingredient and there was definitely something in it that the carp liked, its the one ingredient I wish I could still get in it's original form.
My comments on the fishmeal is purely based on my own experiences, I have been very disappointed with my results when I have used Lt94 as the sole fishmeal content in my baits. I have done far better with a combination of fishmeals, halving the Lt94 content and replacing with sardine and anchovy makes a massive difference. It's the same with going cheap and leaving out milk protein from a fishmeal, it is just not the same.
Of course nowadays we have the option of adding Predigested fishmeal and as you say that's a game changer as well but I don't think when bfm came out that was used in baits, certainly not commercially available ones.
Mozzie,
I'll take your word for the milk proteins I have no way of knowing but the specifications haven't changed to my memory.
Clo versions nowadays are really egg foods, the original clo had milk, yeast and meat products in it, alongside the breadcrumbs. You are right there are some good birdfoods out there but I think in bfm and many other baits they are included for functional reasons not nutritional. The original Robin Red was a fantastic ingredient and there was definitely something in it that the carp liked, its the one ingredient I wish I could still get in it's original form.
My comments on the fishmeal is purely based on my own experiences, I have been very disappointed with my results when I have used Lt94 as the sole fishmeal content in my baits. I have done far better with a combination of fishmeals, halving the Lt94 content and replacing with sardine and anchovy makes a massive difference. It's the same with going cheap and leaving out milk protein from a fishmeal, it is just not the same.
Of course nowadays we have the option of adding Predigested fishmeal and as you say that's a game changer as well but I don't think when bfm came out that was used in baits, certainly not commercially available ones.
In reply to Post #99
What I'm saying though, is that tge sardine and anchovy you use now will be a different beast to the versions used 20 or more years ago. Processing plants get updated, bycatchreduced, research going into optimum nutritional yields from processing etc.
My fishmeal has LT94, CPSP90, S&A, krill, GLM and kelp as marine sources, I'm certainly not against blends, what I'm saying is that the same ingredients now are only going to be of a higher quality, if that makes sense?
What I'm saying though, is that tge sardine and anchovy you use now will be a different beast to the versions used 20 or more years ago. Processing plants get updated, bycatchreduced, research going into optimum nutritional yields from processing etc.
My fishmeal has LT94, CPSP90, S&A, krill, GLM and kelp as marine sources, I'm certainly not against blends, what I'm saying is that the same ingredients now are only going to be of a higher quality, if that makes sense?
In reply to Post #99
You could order "BFM mk2" direct which had predig in it, which with a few tweaks went on to become Trigga (ask Ken!)
Caseins are of a high grade now. Most people who sold lactalbumin where selling WPC80 in the bags which is common knowledge.
Dave stated that you could use WPC instead of Lactalbumin, for cost purposes if you are trying to re-create the bait, but it wouldn't be as good. Also the original Sluis CLO had a lot of, funnily enough, Cod Liver Oil in it which he rates as an additive.
I think the point is, if you are saying the current bait is superior when they aren't using the same milks (and Nutralac/Nutrapro mix is nowhere near as good as the original blend), the same fishmeal's (even if they are using LT, it might even be provimi!), the Sluis isn't the same and in your own word, Robin Red is now mainly dye - its not even the same bait!
You could order "BFM mk2" direct which had predig in it, which with a few tweaks went on to become Trigga (ask Ken!)
Caseins are of a high grade now. Most people who sold lactalbumin where selling WPC80 in the bags which is common knowledge.
Dave stated that you could use WPC instead of Lactalbumin, for cost purposes if you are trying to re-create the bait, but it wouldn't be as good. Also the original Sluis CLO had a lot of, funnily enough, Cod Liver Oil in it which he rates as an additive.
I think the point is, if you are saying the current bait is superior when they aren't using the same milks (and Nutralac/Nutrapro mix is nowhere near as good as the original blend), the same fishmeal's (even if they are using LT, it might even be provimi!), the Sluis isn't the same and in your own word, Robin Red is now mainly dye - its not even the same bait!
In reply to Post #100
BAF have started selling low temp S & A, as well as the regular stuff. Looks an interesting product
BAF have started selling low temp S & A, as well as the regular stuff. Looks an interesting product
In reply to Post #100
If you can't get hold of certain products anymore. ingredients have changed so much in that space of time and with having to replace things with other products when does it stop being BFM?. The BFM of now is totally different to the BFM of then.
If you can't get hold of certain products anymore. ingredients have changed so much in that space of time and with having to replace things with other products when does it stop being BFM?. The BFM of now is totally different to the BFM of then.
In reply to Post #101
I'll succeed the point there, I made a lot of assumptions about nutrabaits integrity on that one.
I was more meaning there is no chance of genuine trigga, where as BFM you can still make ? And if made genuinely, would include the right things at the right levels. Robin red, in my opinion, needs two things added to it thou shall not name to bring it back to a reasonable product, but to be honest I'm really looking forward to trying to make something very decent as an alternative for a few hone rolling customers
I'll succeed the point there, I made a lot of assumptions about nutrabaits integrity on that one.
I was more meaning there is no chance of genuine trigga, where as BFM you can still make ? And if made genuinely, would include the right things at the right levels. Robin red, in my opinion, needs two things added to it thou shall not name to bring it back to a reasonable product, but to be honest I'm really looking forward to trying to make something very decent as an alternative for a few hone rolling customers
In reply to Post #101
Dave stated that you could use WPC instead of Lactalbumin, for cost purposes
Where can you buy GENUINE Lactalbumin nowadays, as WPC80 seems to be sold, or used as a substitute ?
Can only think of CCMoore offering it, that the home roller can buy.
His thoughts on what bait/base for the rest of your days... milk proteins or fishmeals was an interesting one.
Dave stated that you could use WPC instead of Lactalbumin, for cost purposes
Where can you buy GENUINE Lactalbumin nowadays, as WPC80 seems to be sold, or used as a substitute ?
Can only think of CCMoore offering it, that the home roller can buy.
His thoughts on what bait/base for the rest of your days... milk proteins or fishmeals was an interesting one.
In reply to Post #105
Sent a message. Dare not put anything on here too many forum users like to dig lol
Sent a message. Dare not put anything on here too many forum users like to dig lol
In reply to Post #106
Thank you
Thank you