In reply to Post #89
You'll not get any answers Joss as I'm sure those who set this petition up haven't got a clue. It's well meaning but there's no real content. If they want it debated then there needs to be something to debate and nothing has been provided.
We all know that the lethal option is off the table but I'm not sure that folk really know what is meant by non-lethal. Ok, let's assume it's debated and all fishery owners are given licences to trap otters. What happens to an unfenced water? You've got an otter in a trap, now what? Relocate it to Ben Nevis?
Like I said, the intention is good but there's no meat on the bones, it's a hollow petition. The PAG have made excellent ground and I'm sure there's lots going on behind the scenes that us mere mortals aren't aware of. Things like this won't derail your efforts but equally I don't think they're helping in any way.
You'll not get any answers Joss as I'm sure those who set this petition up haven't got a clue. It's well meaning but there's no real content. If they want it debated then there needs to be something to debate and nothing has been provided.
We all know that the lethal option is off the table but I'm not sure that folk really know what is meant by non-lethal. Ok, let's assume it's debated and all fishery owners are given licences to trap otters. What happens to an unfenced water? You've got an otter in a trap, now what? Relocate it to Ben Nevis?
Like I said, the intention is good but there's no meat on the bones, it's a hollow petition. The PAG have made excellent ground and I'm sure there's lots going on behind the scenes that us mere mortals aren't aware of. Things like this won't derail your efforts but equally I don't think they're helping in any way.
In reply to Post #95
No, not seen it. I'll have a look. Is it on his own page or the PAG page?
No, not seen it. I'll have a look. Is it on his own page or the PAG page?
In reply to Post #97
Can't see anything, can you tag me in?
Can't see anything, can you tag me in?
In reply to Post #98
Surely this isnt literally it? I thought I must be missing a link to the proper document but can't seem to find anything else. All that's there is a generic opening paragraph that says absolutely nothing. Nice idea with good intentions but I'm in agreement with the doubters... it's terrirbly presented.
Surely this isnt literally it? I thought I must be missing a link to the proper document but can't seem to find anything else. All that's there is a generic opening paragraph that says absolutely nothing. Nice idea with good intentions but I'm in agreement with the doubters... it's terrirbly presented.
In reply to Post #99
I've been talking to someone who supposed was involved in it. He told me that the intention of the petition was to pass the problem back on to the EA as they're responsible for it. I asked where in the petition it mentioned need this & he couldn't answer.
It's weak, hollow & amateurish. Obviously the intentions are good but it's so poorly thought. Imagine it getting to parliament...
So what do they want?
Non-lethal means to control otters
Don't they already have that?
Yes
OK, moving on...
I've been talking to someone who supposed was involved in it. He told me that the intention of the petition was to pass the problem back on to the EA as they're responsible for it. I asked where in the petition it mentioned need this & he couldn't answer.
It's weak, hollow & amateurish. Obviously the intentions are good but it's so poorly thought. Imagine it getting to parliament...
So what do they want?
Non-lethal means to control otters
Don't they already have that?
Yes
OK, moving on...
Whatever the outcome of this petition, at least the people that started it, are actually doing something, albeit not in the best way possible but, they are doing something, because they care.
I can't understand why anybody that's concerned about birds and water fowl aren't putting something together? Probably hoping somebody else will, we're all guilty of that at times.
I can't understand why anybody that's concerned about birds and water fowl aren't putting something together? Probably hoping somebody else will, we're all guilty of that at times.
In reply to Post #102
RSPB have just quietly fenced some of their reserves...
Even with their power as an organisation I think they are worried about the backlash from the general public. I cant talk round my colleagues in the office no matter how much evidence I show them!
RSPB have just quietly fenced some of their reserves...
Even with their power as an organisation I think they are worried about the backlash from the general public. I cant talk round my colleagues in the office no matter how much evidence I show them!
I agree it is an ill structured petition most definitely written from frustration that will not be given the light of day, but I also feel the frustration given to anything like this is what is at the forefront of any like minded angler who would rush to sign it, although I haven't
I feel a lot of this frustration is born from being ill informed or not being kept in the loop of the latest things being tabled in discussions that anglers are not privy to, or the outcomes of such discussions yet groups who are working for backing and support treat it as almost a secret society, yes were informed meetings are happening but not necessarily the outcomes or what is being tabled, for people to back such groups they like to know what their getting for their donations, which I feel is why a lot of these groups loose momentum or peoples interest.
I'm not knocking anyone and appreciate the effort that many others as well as Joss have put in and allotted so much of their time to the otter problem faced by all of the angling community, but and it is my only but I do feel more could be said/released for general consumption for anglers to digest.
If you take a look at the PAG Facebook page or website other than Tim's posts over the last twelve months as to what has been happening there is not a great deal of anything else being posted and with Tim having stepped out of the limelight who else is going to keep this up to date I feel it will fall by the wayside as my interest into looking at it has already subsided.
Natural angling is fooked, if you want anything other than a fenced fishery which for me takes away the essence of being in the countryside it feels more like Colditz.
Out of interest and I hope Joss will answer the question if he sees it, how many otters within a fenced fishery have been trapped and released since its introduction mainly as a gauge for those whom believe a fenced fishery is the only solution for sanctuary, is the number so minute in relation to its need.
I feel a lot of this frustration is born from being ill informed or not being kept in the loop of the latest things being tabled in discussions that anglers are not privy to, or the outcomes of such discussions yet groups who are working for backing and support treat it as almost a secret society, yes were informed meetings are happening but not necessarily the outcomes or what is being tabled, for people to back such groups they like to know what their getting for their donations, which I feel is why a lot of these groups loose momentum or peoples interest.
I'm not knocking anyone and appreciate the effort that many others as well as Joss have put in and allotted so much of their time to the otter problem faced by all of the angling community, but and it is my only but I do feel more could be said/released for general consumption for anglers to digest.
If you take a look at the PAG Facebook page or website other than Tim's posts over the last twelve months as to what has been happening there is not a great deal of anything else being posted and with Tim having stepped out of the limelight who else is going to keep this up to date I feel it will fall by the wayside as my interest into looking at it has already subsided.
Natural angling is fooked, if you want anything other than a fenced fishery which for me takes away the essence of being in the countryside it feels more like Colditz.
Out of interest and I hope Joss will answer the question if he sees it, how many otters within a fenced fishery have been trapped and released since its introduction mainly as a gauge for those whom believe a fenced fishery is the only solution for sanctuary, is the number so minute in relation to its need.
In reply to Post #104
I will get the most accurate info for you later today and will post later on tonight..I have last months figures, but I'd rather be bang up to date with any info I provide if that's ok with you mate
I will get the most accurate info for you later today and will post later on tonight..I have last months figures, but I'd rather be bang up to date with any info I provide if that's ok with you mate
In reply to Post #105
It will be interesting to know the figures Joss.
It will be interesting to know the figures Joss.
In reply to Post #106
No probs mate
On a slight tangent
Did you realise that the IS an application for LETHAL CONTROL available today?
No probs mate
On a slight tangent
Did you realise that the IS an application for LETHAL CONTROL available today?
In reply to Post #107
Joss do you know if anyone has even attempted to go down this route by taking it to court?
Surely as it is now a precedent this called be used not only for otters, but cormorants. Just suppose you have to have the money to build your case and take it to court. Most fisheries & clubs wont have the resource, but easily winnable obviously.
Joss do you know if anyone has even attempted to go down this route by taking it to court?
Surely as it is now a precedent this called be used not only for otters, but cormorants. Just suppose you have to have the money to build your case and take it to court. Most fisheries & clubs wont have the resource, but easily winnable obviously.
In reply to Post #107
I had read that there was something tabled for farmers rights so to speak but not that there was an application for lethal control in process, it will never see the light of day.
My very good friend is a manager at WWT Slimbridge, he could have done with an application for lethal control many years ago, and on their home page their is an otter for the ticket section not that that was his idea, he is a very capable carp angler for whom predation effects both social and work activities.
I had read that there was something tabled for farmers rights so to speak but not that there was an application for lethal control in process, it will never see the light of day.
My very good friend is a manager at WWT Slimbridge, he could have done with an application for lethal control many years ago, and on their home page their is an otter for the ticket section not that that was his idea, he is a very capable carp angler for whom predation effects both social and work activities.
In reply to Post #108
Shooting of cormorants is also under licence via the angling trust mate
No, I don't think that anyone has applied for lethal control of a protected species.
But if no one tries, then we will never find out.
What I'm trying to put across is the amount of ill informed people there are signing a petition that provides you with zero information...
Shooting of cormorants is also under licence via the angling trust mate
No, I don't think that anyone has applied for lethal control of a protected species.
But if no one tries, then we will never find out.
What I'm trying to put across is the amount of ill informed people there are signing a petition that provides you with zero information...
In reply to Post #109
No...farmers rights will NEVER be applied...FACT
No...farmers rights will NEVER be applied...FACT