In reply to Post #59
Don't forget It was Anglers who lobbied in the 60's and 70's to clean up the Rivers, and a hell of a good job was done- unfortunately it also provided a perfect food source for un-controlled numbers of cage breed predators to take advantage off once released into the wild.
All of the still waters I fish are ex-industrial - if it was not for anglers re-purposing them and giving them value to the owner ALL would have been filled in- it's as simple as that! Problem is in winter they provide the perfect “MacDonald's or Greggs” for the Otter's, easy semi-dormant prey very easy to kill, in most cases killed for the fun of it. The quicker all viable stillwaters get fenced the better, until then they are going to breed out of control causing untold damage to wildlife and fish stock.
On my local River: at first mainly Salmon were found on the backings, a few inches of flesh eaten then left to be scavenged by Mink, Rat's, Crows, Magpies etc... Now you don't see any because there is hardly any left, next target was the Pike especially in winter when slow – there now is no decent Pike left (Big females critical to natural re-population wiped out) only the odd jack is left. At present it's the Barbel turn; the big mature specimens that are critical to keep a healthy natural population are getting massacred, when the Barbel numbers are so low to not warrant wasting energy on, it will be the Chub's turns next.......
In Scotland you don't have large coarse fish populations providing an all year round food source, hence the Otter population is kept in check naturally.
Don't forget It was Anglers who lobbied in the 60's and 70's to clean up the Rivers, and a hell of a good job was done- unfortunately it also provided a perfect food source for un-controlled numbers of cage breed predators to take advantage off once released into the wild.
All of the still waters I fish are ex-industrial - if it was not for anglers re-purposing them and giving them value to the owner ALL would have been filled in- it's as simple as that! Problem is in winter they provide the perfect “MacDonald's or Greggs” for the Otter's, easy semi-dormant prey very easy to kill, in most cases killed for the fun of it. The quicker all viable stillwaters get fenced the better, until then they are going to breed out of control causing untold damage to wildlife and fish stock.
On my local River: at first mainly Salmon were found on the backings, a few inches of flesh eaten then left to be scavenged by Mink, Rat's, Crows, Magpies etc... Now you don't see any because there is hardly any left, next target was the Pike especially in winter when slow – there now is no decent Pike left (Big females critical to natural re-population wiped out) only the odd jack is left. At present it's the Barbel turn; the big mature specimens that are critical to keep a healthy natural population are getting massacred, when the Barbel numbers are so low to not warrant wasting energy on, it will be the Chub's turns next.......
In Scotland you don't have large coarse fish populations providing an all year round food source, hence the Otter population is kept in check naturally.
In reply to Post #59
I wouldn't call St Ives over stocked
I wouldn't call St Ives over stocked
In reply to Post #63
Tell me about it.
Take Ferry Lagoon, maybe 100 to 150 fish in there and they're getting hammered. Plenty of corpses in.the out of bounds from what I'm hearing. Ferry is peanuts to fish compared to other places about, so not an over priced hole in the ground full of monster carp.
The only time things will change is when the posh salmon runs get smashed where wealthy and the influential will actually start turning the tide on these overgrown rats, until then, it's just a case of watching historic places get rinsed.
Personally I feel for the barbel anglers, moreover guys fishing rivers that have seen once magical places get decimated, consequently those guys that have lost their fishing no doubt will become carp anglers fishing fenced off places and the effect that has is syndicates will charge as much as they wish. It's all a horrible place to be.
I won't shed a tear if I see a dead otter.wahed up, that's for sure.
Tell me about it.
Take Ferry Lagoon, maybe 100 to 150 fish in there and they're getting hammered. Plenty of corpses in.the out of bounds from what I'm hearing. Ferry is peanuts to fish compared to other places about, so not an over priced hole in the ground full of monster carp.
The only time things will change is when the posh salmon runs get smashed where wealthy and the influential will actually start turning the tide on these overgrown rats, until then, it's just a case of watching historic places get rinsed.
Personally I feel for the barbel anglers, moreover guys fishing rivers that have seen once magical places get decimated, consequently those guys that have lost their fishing no doubt will become carp anglers fishing fenced off places and the effect that has is syndicates will charge as much as they wish. It's all a horrible place to be.
I won't shed a tear if I see a dead otter.wahed up, that's for sure.
In reply to Post #62
I don't necessarily disagree with you but youmake some very assertive, breathtakingly sweeping statements.
Some( a few) anglers did contribute to the wider environmental movement to clean up our waterways and there have been some notable successes. Between 1955 and 1971 I lived literally on the banks of the Mersey when it was an utterly lifeless, reeking purple sewer, like its tributary the Irwell. From the 70,s onwards the river, like the Thames and the Tyne has improved steadily. The destruction of manufacturing and heavy industries has been a bonus. These rivers are still far from clean and only support a tiny fraction of the hugely biodiverse and prolific ecosystems a major river system should
I now live in the South West and the same problem exists, rivers running over glacial gravels down from chalk downland through rural areas are not as they should be. Its May, they should be humming with life, plants, insects, fish and birds. They are not! They are deserts. The clear water is full of herbicides, insecticides, fungicides, dwarfing hormones, silage and slurry run off, untreated sewage releases and the huge amount and variety of household chemicals. These rivers are easily capable of supporting a healthy population of predators given a sporting chance.
The otters, cormorants, merganser are not the problem. We are.
You want to protect and improve the environment you start at the bottom. No good saving the whale if you empty the ocean of whale food, no good protecting big food fish if you emty the sea of food for big fish
I don't necessarily disagree with you but youmake some very assertive, breathtakingly sweeping statements.
Some( a few) anglers did contribute to the wider environmental movement to clean up our waterways and there have been some notable successes. Between 1955 and 1971 I lived literally on the banks of the Mersey when it was an utterly lifeless, reeking purple sewer, like its tributary the Irwell. From the 70,s onwards the river, like the Thames and the Tyne has improved steadily. The destruction of manufacturing and heavy industries has been a bonus. These rivers are still far from clean and only support a tiny fraction of the hugely biodiverse and prolific ecosystems a major river system should
I now live in the South West and the same problem exists, rivers running over glacial gravels down from chalk downland through rural areas are not as they should be. Its May, they should be humming with life, plants, insects, fish and birds. They are not! They are deserts. The clear water is full of herbicides, insecticides, fungicides, dwarfing hormones, silage and slurry run off, untreated sewage releases and the huge amount and variety of household chemicals. These rivers are easily capable of supporting a healthy population of predators given a sporting chance.
The otters, cormorants, merganser are not the problem. We are.
You want to protect and improve the environment you start at the bottom. No good saving the whale if you empty the ocean of whale food, no good protecting big food fish if you emty the sea of food for big fish
Feed them and they will come.
Applies for pretty much anything.
Bit of a fuss being made about shad being reintroduced, what a waste of time
Applies for pretty much anything.
Bit of a fuss being made about shad being reintroduced, what a waste of time
In reply to Post #66
I had exactly the same thought when I saw this in the press. More food for the otter. Unreal.
I had exactly the same thought when I saw this in the press. More food for the otter. Unreal.
In reply to Post #63
totally agree, i think this has gone off on a tangent as the "over stocked" comments certainly are NOT what St Ives is
totally agree, i think this has gone off on a tangent as the "over stocked" comments certainly are NOT what St Ives is
In reply to Post #65
It's changed dramatically here in North West since you left Lance, the rivers are pristine – in fact most support large natural stocks of Brown Trout, Grayling, Dace, Ruffe etc.... they are that clean (species that only thrive in very clean water)
Until recently I could take a 5 minute walk to a local River and catch Trout for fun. The same river in the late 70's stuck of cyanide from the ICI perplex plant next to it (Almonds smell) and often turned fluro green and blue from the discharge from the plant. When the Plant shut down the river soon recovered, but it's now being annihilated by Cormorants and Otters and will soon be devoid of life again.
It's changed dramatically here in North West since you left Lance, the rivers are pristine – in fact most support large natural stocks of Brown Trout, Grayling, Dace, Ruffe etc.... they are that clean (species that only thrive in very clean water)
Until recently I could take a 5 minute walk to a local River and catch Trout for fun. The same river in the late 70's stuck of cyanide from the ICI perplex plant next to it (Almonds smell) and often turned fluro green and blue from the discharge from the plant. When the Plant shut down the river soon recovered, but it's now being annihilated by Cormorants and Otters and will soon be devoid of life again.
In reply to Post #64
Totally agree. In my experience lightly stocked waters are hit the hardest due to the lack of anglers present. Colemere, hardest water in the country, maybe 5 to 10 fish in 90 odd acres of deep water and the bloody otters had most of them.
Totally agree. In my experience lightly stocked waters are hit the hardest due to the lack of anglers present. Colemere, hardest water in the country, maybe 5 to 10 fish in 90 odd acres of deep water and the bloody otters had most of them.
In reply to Post #60
Agree
That's why I mentioned the environment agency. I am a wildlife lover but there has to be a balance and whilst ever people are tampering with nature it will never balance out. There needs to be a place for otters and this needs to be controlled, you first start reading about them and the reality is, the spread and distribution is incredible. I have never know otters in any waters around me up until late but slowly and surely they are turning up. They have the potential to wipe out anything that is not fenced and fencing everything is not viable me, hence a license to shoot them for me.
If we had designated sanctuary areas and boundaries for our furry friends and anything outside was not allowed we have a chance
Agree
That's why I mentioned the environment agency. I am a wildlife lover but there has to be a balance and whilst ever people are tampering with nature it will never balance out. There needs to be a place for otters and this needs to be controlled, you first start reading about them and the reality is, the spread and distribution is incredible. I have never know otters in any waters around me up until late but slowly and surely they are turning up. They have the potential to wipe out anything that is not fenced and fencing everything is not viable me, hence a license to shoot them for me.
If we had designated sanctuary areas and boundaries for our furry friends and anything outside was not allowed we have a chance
In reply to Post #70
These are the type of waters that concern me. What's the realistic chance of fencing them off, zero? hence this is why I think a license should be granted to shoot them just the same as we eventually got for the cormorants
If people still want to play around with traps that should be their choice
These are the type of waters that concern me. What's the realistic chance of fencing them off, zero? hence this is why I think a license should be granted to shoot them just the same as we eventually got for the cormorants
If people still want to play around with traps that should be their choice
In reply to Post #71
If the sea eagles getting released up your way take a fancy to carp they'll breed like pigeons.
Indoor carping anyone?
If the sea eagles getting released up your way take a fancy to carp they'll breed like pigeons.
Indoor carping anyone?
In reply to Post #73
i would pay to see that
i would pay to see that
In reply to Post #74
easy to find videos of sea eagles taking big carp
Might be harder to find a vid of indoor carping
easy to find videos of sea eagles taking big carp
Might be harder to find a vid of indoor carping
In reply to Post #69
It sounds an amazing transformation Keith. Ignoring the utterly lifeless Mersey, Irwell, Ship Canal, Blackbear and Woolston Cut, a couple of which have gone, I know, even the rivers like the Weaver, Dane and the Bollin supported very little life. The Bridgewater Canal provided some sport but had its problems.
To hear waters like this described as pristine even 50 years on is quite remarkable. The thought of otters thriving anywhere near where I grew up is utterly amazing.
Maybe as anglers we have to share it.
It sounds an amazing transformation Keith. Ignoring the utterly lifeless Mersey, Irwell, Ship Canal, Blackbear and Woolston Cut, a couple of which have gone, I know, even the rivers like the Weaver, Dane and the Bollin supported very little life. The Bridgewater Canal provided some sport but had its problems.
To hear waters like this described as pristine even 50 years on is quite remarkable. The thought of otters thriving anywhere near where I grew up is utterly amazing.
Maybe as anglers we have to share it.