In reply to Post #45
What you are referring to is meat and bone meal ,while loads of anglers and bait makers think that ,meat and bone and for that matter poultry meal ,is good protein for bait ,it is not fish do not have the ability to diguest animal protein, why would they ?
So while they will initially eat bait containing these ingredients ,they basiclly get severe guts ache and probably constipated, and rapidly learn not to eat it , so I think it is highly unlikely to have been included in any successful long term bait.
What you are referring to is meat and bone meal ,while loads of anglers and bait makers think that ,meat and bone and for that matter poultry meal ,is good protein for bait ,it is not fish do not have the ability to diguest animal protein, why would they ?
So while they will initially eat bait containing these ingredients ,they basiclly get severe guts ache and probably constipated, and rapidly learn not to eat it , so I think it is highly unlikely to have been included in any successful long term bait.
In reply to Post #46
Just out of interest, what would liver powder be considered as, as it comes from animals and has a good protein content. Or are you specifically referring to just those 2 types of animal protein?
Just out of interest, what would liver powder be considered as, as it comes from animals and has a good protein content. Or are you specifically referring to just those 2 types of animal protein?
In reply to Post #46
What is your source for this information? Not picking a fight, I really like to learn new things.
The protein in Meat and Bone meal is up to 75% digestible by some fish (can't find specific data for carp but it is lower than this due to no real stomach). This is not as good as fish meal (86% digestible by carp) or poultry by-products (feather) meal but it is still not terrible. My source is mainly the Handbook on Ingredients for Aquaculture and Feeds by J. Hertrampf and F Piedad-Pascual.
The main issue with the meat and bone meal is the AA profile is not great and the ash content is high. With a mixture of other AA sources and higher fiber/course ingredients this can be helped a bit and thus improve the apparent digestibility. Probably stops them getting gut ache to
I don't personally use meat and bone meal but I have in the past been very successful with a poultry by product meal which served me well in a bait at 15% inclusion rate for over 10 years. Caught loads on it from all sorts of different waters. I also sold a few tons of that bait commercial in that time. I only stopped using it when availability became an issue due to changes in EU laws and truth be told I fancied trying something different!
What is your source for this information? Not picking a fight, I really like to learn new things.
The protein in Meat and Bone meal is up to 75% digestible by some fish (can't find specific data for carp but it is lower than this due to no real stomach). This is not as good as fish meal (86% digestible by carp) or poultry by-products (feather) meal but it is still not terrible. My source is mainly the Handbook on Ingredients for Aquaculture and Feeds by J. Hertrampf and F Piedad-Pascual.
The main issue with the meat and bone meal is the AA profile is not great and the ash content is high. With a mixture of other AA sources and higher fiber/course ingredients this can be helped a bit and thus improve the apparent digestibility. Probably stops them getting gut ache to
I don't personally use meat and bone meal but I have in the past been very successful with a poultry by product meal which served me well in a bait at 15% inclusion rate for over 10 years. Caught loads on it from all sorts of different waters. I also sold a few tons of that bait commercial in that time. I only stopped using it when availability became an issue due to changes in EU laws and truth be told I fancied trying something different!
In reply to Post #47
Referring to the same book I mention in #48 (can be bother to type its name out again!) liver meal is very good at improving weight gain in young carp and 'there is no limit in use of....liver meal except of economic reasons'. This suggests it is very digestible despite being an animal product.
They recommend 5-10% to gain the full nutritional benefits which they do not separate from attraction as its a guide for fish farmers who are after different things (max weight vs min cost).
Referring to the same book I mention in #48 (can be bother to type its name out again!) liver meal is very good at improving weight gain in young carp and 'there is no limit in use of....liver meal except of economic reasons'. This suggests it is very digestible despite being an animal product.
They recommend 5-10% to gain the full nutritional benefits which they do not separate from attraction as its a guide for fish farmers who are after different things (max weight vs min cost).
In reply to Post #46
Would you say that the same theory applies to fish and insect meals? Which proteins do the carp have the ability to digest and how are they different from ‘animal' proteins?
Would milk protein also be classified animal? Or are you referring to ‘meat and bone meal' as a specific product?
Would you say that the same theory applies to fish and insect meals? Which proteins do the carp have the ability to digest and how are they different from ‘animal' proteins?
Would milk protein also be classified animal? Or are you referring to ‘meat and bone meal' as a specific product?