In reply to Post #29
And no doubt rely upon trains and trams instead to get to work which are eye wateringly expensive and/or not in service due to driver operator strikes.
And no doubt rely upon trains and trams instead to get to work which are eye wateringly expensive and/or not in service due to driver operator strikes.
In reply to Post #31
An unlimited travel card is £147 per month. Not that extortionate compared to two full tanks of fuel at current prices. I live in Zone 2 but need a vehicle for work so switched to one with a tiny petrol engine. Slow as hell, but everywhere is 20mph now, ULEZ compliant and cheap to run. If you want to draw the milk from the big city teat there is going to be some compromise.
The fact that up to 500,000 children in London have been forced to breathe illegally toxic air warrants a financial tariff on those who chose to live outside the city but want to drive their vehicles in every day clogging up the roads and polluting the air.
I appreciate I may be in the minority of somebody who actually lives in London having an opinion.
An unlimited travel card is £147 per month. Not that extortionate compared to two full tanks of fuel at current prices. I live in Zone 2 but need a vehicle for work so switched to one with a tiny petrol engine. Slow as hell, but everywhere is 20mph now, ULEZ compliant and cheap to run. If you want to draw the milk from the big city teat there is going to be some compromise.
The fact that up to 500,000 children in London have been forced to breathe illegally toxic air warrants a financial tariff on those who chose to live outside the city but want to drive their vehicles in every day clogging up the roads and polluting the air.
I appreciate I may be in the minority of somebody who actually lives in London having an opinion.
Where I am isn't isn't city. It may be a London Borough but its very much Kent. I back onto woodland with a golf course behind it. There are parks every other road. 3 mins down the nearby A road and its farmers fields of Dartford and Wilmington
In reply to Post #31
Let's face it , thay don't like cars so thay will price 30% of the roads then find some other poor sod to pay for cycle lanes that make congestion that makes more con gestion , its a London thing, soon be moving away 2 expensive
Let's face it , thay don't like cars so thay will price 30% of the roads then find some other poor sod to pay for cycle lanes that make congestion that makes more con gestion , its a London thing, soon be moving away 2 expensive
In reply to Post #29
I don't agree.
Any tax that has a financial penalty for polluting is ridiculous and will only ever punish the poorer.
Would you say that polluting our rivers would be OK if you paid a surcharge ever time you did it?
Is dumping rubbish OK in the countryside alright if you pay for it?
After covid - Brexit and the cost of living crisis this will be the final nail for many - another tax on Londoners, that has a knock on effect on its residents and shops etc. if you own a tackle shop just inside the zone you instantly alienate a huge proportion of customers, so you shut up shop and let AD kill the market.
If you have a pensioner in a tower block who's pleasure is a trip out with his grandson fishing in the suburbs then that's another thing that a choice between eating or family time.
Paying to pollute has to be the single worst policy ever. Stick to taxation on a fair scale - everyone to ensure that all future vehicles are kinder to the planet. Car sharing - subsidised rail / bus services, things that incentivise good behaviour.
The London mayors job is to look after Londoners, not posture on global Green agendas. Some of the countries poorest people live here. If you can afford to live in a Windsor estate, are you honestly thinking that thrashing a Ferrari around is OK and that Colin the painter should pay £12.50 a day to earn his £70?
COVID has killed the city - Khan is putting the finishing touches to it - making it into a ghost town full of £3 million pound penthouses. God help us.
I don't agree.
Any tax that has a financial penalty for polluting is ridiculous and will only ever punish the poorer.
Would you say that polluting our rivers would be OK if you paid a surcharge ever time you did it?
Is dumping rubbish OK in the countryside alright if you pay for it?
After covid - Brexit and the cost of living crisis this will be the final nail for many - another tax on Londoners, that has a knock on effect on its residents and shops etc. if you own a tackle shop just inside the zone you instantly alienate a huge proportion of customers, so you shut up shop and let AD kill the market.
If you have a pensioner in a tower block who's pleasure is a trip out with his grandson fishing in the suburbs then that's another thing that a choice between eating or family time.
Paying to pollute has to be the single worst policy ever. Stick to taxation on a fair scale - everyone to ensure that all future vehicles are kinder to the planet. Car sharing - subsidised rail / bus services, things that incentivise good behaviour.
The London mayors job is to look after Londoners, not posture on global Green agendas. Some of the countries poorest people live here. If you can afford to live in a Windsor estate, are you honestly thinking that thrashing a Ferrari around is OK and that Colin the painter should pay £12.50 a day to earn his £70?
COVID has killed the city - Khan is putting the finishing touches to it - making it into a ghost town full of £3 million pound penthouses. God help us.
In reply to Post #32
When we moved from London (about 1/2 mile from the A406) my daughters chest problems - which included numerous visits to A&E over the years, and Asthma - stopped completely. May be an edge case but what you're saying definitely holds water. We can't just keep polluting so dramatically and changes to behaviour needs to come from somewhere.
When we moved from London (about 1/2 mile from the A406) my daughters chest problems - which included numerous visits to A&E over the years, and Asthma - stopped completely. May be an edge case but what you're saying definitely holds water. We can't just keep polluting so dramatically and changes to behaviour needs to come from somewhere.
In reply to Post #19
Anyone that lives in that *****hole of a place could have foreseen this decades ago. I worked there in the 80's and it was like a third world country then. The older folk that were true Londoners were slowly dying off and anyone with half a brain was getting out of Dodge on the first available horse. Immigration has done more harm to the UK than the Luffewaffe, Black Death, Spanish Flu and both World Wars combined.
Anyone that lives in that *****hole of a place could have foreseen this decades ago. I worked there in the 80's and it was like a third world country then. The older folk that were true Londoners were slowly dying off and anyone with half a brain was getting out of Dodge on the first available horse. Immigration has done more harm to the UK than the Luffewaffe, Black Death, Spanish Flu and both World Wars combined.
In reply to Post #35
Wasn't that muppet of a mayor swanning about in the USA only a couple months ago looking at cannabis production and how he could legalise it over here?
Once again, you can't fault the bloke, obviously he has everyone's best health interests at heart while he puffed on a few spliffs dreaming about the tax he could rake in from those same people who he's been saving from dirty polluted car fumes.
Wasn't that muppet of a mayor swanning about in the USA only a couple months ago looking at cannabis production and how he could legalise it over here?
Once again, you can't fault the bloke, obviously he has everyone's best health interests at heart while he puffed on a few spliffs dreaming about the tax he could rake in from those same people who he's been saving from dirty polluted car fumes.
In reply to Post #32
A reasonable counter argument.
I live in suburbs and commute via train.
I think the flaw in your POV are every day Londoners going OUT of the city. If they are breathing Toxic levels then should they really pay £12.50 for a short trip to the country? That to me sounds ridiculous and counter productive.
Will this tax solely benefit the air pollution of Londoners now? Is it 100% used to do this - is it all invested in city Green initiatives. - I'm not convinced.
What would be a good idea is any vehicle registered within London would be exempt - let's face it if you stay in the zone you are polluting anyway going out makes things better and not worse. For anyone that does a tax return make it deductible expense - so you are not killing the lower paid and self employed.
Charge businesses £10k per year for any parking spaces they provide over a reasonable amount (shops etc would need a couple) but huge banks with underground parking should pay through the nose.
Spend every penny of the London green initiatives on Londoners. I love London and all it stands for - it is being milked by the rest of the country and the devolution of power has killed the city. London is the jewel of the UK crown - the PM should be governing our city from central government not subbing it out to some deluded wannabe. The ‘red wall' is where this Government won - selling its most valuable asset. If you have a conservative government and labour mayor (or visa versa) of course you will have agendas that are for parties not people.
A reasonable counter argument.
I live in suburbs and commute via train.
I think the flaw in your POV are every day Londoners going OUT of the city. If they are breathing Toxic levels then should they really pay £12.50 for a short trip to the country? That to me sounds ridiculous and counter productive.
Will this tax solely benefit the air pollution of Londoners now? Is it 100% used to do this - is it all invested in city Green initiatives. - I'm not convinced.
What would be a good idea is any vehicle registered within London would be exempt - let's face it if you stay in the zone you are polluting anyway going out makes things better and not worse. For anyone that does a tax return make it deductible expense - so you are not killing the lower paid and self employed.
Charge businesses £10k per year for any parking spaces they provide over a reasonable amount (shops etc would need a couple) but huge banks with underground parking should pay through the nose.
Spend every penny of the London green initiatives on Londoners. I love London and all it stands for - it is being milked by the rest of the country and the devolution of power has killed the city. London is the jewel of the UK crown - the PM should be governing our city from central government not subbing it out to some deluded wannabe. The ‘red wall' is where this Government won - selling its most valuable asset. If you have a conservative government and labour mayor (or visa versa) of course you will have agendas that are for parties not people.
In reply to Post #39
Mate London is a cesspit. I have the misfortune of working here, I'm in Mayfair at the moment. You couldn't pay me to live here. Making London vehicles exempt is ludicrous given the amount of Chelsea tractors and supercars driving around. The air quality here is awful so anything that may improve it is a bonus. This whole ulez thing isn't new, or hasn't been a secret. People should have been more proactive and sorted their vehicles out long before now
Mate London is a cesspit. I have the misfortune of working here, I'm in Mayfair at the moment. You couldn't pay me to live here. Making London vehicles exempt is ludicrous given the amount of Chelsea tractors and supercars driving around. The air quality here is awful so anything that may improve it is a bonus. This whole ulez thing isn't new, or hasn't been a secret. People should have been more proactive and sorted their vehicles out long before now
In reply to Post #37
Obviously immigration has brought this country many benefits and your comparisons are pretty extreme, but the conundrum here is that climate change / global warming - call it what you will - is only going to lead to increased migration, as places like the Middle East, Asia and Africa become uninhabitable. So some hard thinking and hard choices are required.
A lot - not all - of what 55s is saying makes sense to me.
Obviously immigration has brought this country many benefits and your comparisons are pretty extreme, but the conundrum here is that climate change / global warming - call it what you will - is only going to lead to increased migration, as places like the Middle East, Asia and Africa become uninhabitable. So some hard thinking and hard choices are required.
A lot - not all - of what 55s is saying makes sense to me.
In reply to Post #40
But that just stupid isn't it?
If they extend ULEZ you are incentivising people to drive polluting cars in a larger area without paying. You are effectively saying everywhere inside the M25 fill your boots and poison the air but don't bring your filthy car into Sevenoaks?
The inner London ULEZ was OK ish - but Khan has seen the cash cow. I am all for fair taxes - but I want the money raised to help the problem - not a pay to pollute.
This thread started with a London pensioner that may have to start to pay to go fishing if the zone is extended. As for the warning that is now - does he try and get a new vehicle and lose fortunes on his current one or stick and hope he doesn't have a totally worthless car in a couple of years.
For the record I live in the suburbs and have an ULEZ compliant fishing van. I work for a cancer charity, that cares for some of the poorest in the country. After covid and now the cost of living crisis - cancer care - in the city and soon the suburbs will be a choice between having your chemo or feeding the kids.
But that just stupid isn't it?
If they extend ULEZ you are incentivising people to drive polluting cars in a larger area without paying. You are effectively saying everywhere inside the M25 fill your boots and poison the air but don't bring your filthy car into Sevenoaks?
The inner London ULEZ was OK ish - but Khan has seen the cash cow. I am all for fair taxes - but I want the money raised to help the problem - not a pay to pollute.
This thread started with a London pensioner that may have to start to pay to go fishing if the zone is extended. As for the warning that is now - does he try and get a new vehicle and lose fortunes on his current one or stick and hope he doesn't have a totally worthless car in a couple of years.
For the record I live in the suburbs and have an ULEZ compliant fishing van. I work for a cancer charity, that cares for some of the poorest in the country. After covid and now the cost of living crisis - cancer care - in the city and soon the suburbs will be a choice between having your chemo or feeding the kids.
In reply to Post #32
The joys of living in zone 2, cheaper travel card
Zone 1 to 5 is £252 a month
Zone 1 to 6 is £270 a month
For most of my local driving includes supermarket to get shopping and taking stuff to my elderly parents. Yes it could be done with multiple bus trips but would also take far longer and be far more inconvenient.
I am on the border of countryside so the air is not so bad here, but 10mins in the other direction and I'd hit the A406 where current boundary is. No problem, I very rarely go inside and the rare occasion the fee is ok. Extend that out as planned and i can no longer use my car without further charge. Even this lovely diesel that the government told us all to buy years ago is now penalised
But vans and busses and general daily commuters are polluting FAR more than my car does each year from the far higher miles they do and probable time stuck in traffic jams.
I think a lot of this extra pollution you say children are forced to breathe is not helped by their parents. All these parents driving a short trip to drop them at school is ridiculous, let them walk and keep all these cars off the road causing chaos with silly parking and stopping where they want while burning fuel etc
The joys of living in zone 2, cheaper travel card
Zone 1 to 5 is £252 a month
Zone 1 to 6 is £270 a month
For most of my local driving includes supermarket to get shopping and taking stuff to my elderly parents. Yes it could be done with multiple bus trips but would also take far longer and be far more inconvenient.
I am on the border of countryside so the air is not so bad here, but 10mins in the other direction and I'd hit the A406 where current boundary is. No problem, I very rarely go inside and the rare occasion the fee is ok. Extend that out as planned and i can no longer use my car without further charge. Even this lovely diesel that the government told us all to buy years ago is now penalised
But vans and busses and general daily commuters are polluting FAR more than my car does each year from the far higher miles they do and probable time stuck in traffic jams.
I think a lot of this extra pollution you say children are forced to breathe is not helped by their parents. All these parents driving a short trip to drop them at school is ridiculous, let them walk and keep all these cars off the road causing chaos with silly parking and stopping where they want while burning fuel etc
In reply to Post #41
"Obviously immigration has brought this country many benefits"
Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of girls gang raped by those that must be pandered to.
Tell that to the relatives of all those blown to pieces, maimed or knifed to death..also you may tell those that are victims of acid attacks and scared for life.
Tell that to those that will never be able to afford their own home and will have to live in private rented accommodation as the council housing stock is immediately allocated to the newly arrived family of five.
Tell that to thousands of parents whose child is in a class of 50 and one of only three whites that never get any time spent on them.
Tell that to the patients who suffered from malpractice because the qualifications were from another country written on the back of a fag packet.
I see no benefits of allowing TWENTY million plus into a country in less than 30 years.
Oh, the establishment got a higher GNI and employers got cheap labour.. None of that benefits me...none.
You are of the type that has thrown away their heritage for a cheap kebab made from floor sweepings of the abattoir.
"Obviously immigration has brought this country many benefits"
Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of girls gang raped by those that must be pandered to.
Tell that to the relatives of all those blown to pieces, maimed or knifed to death..also you may tell those that are victims of acid attacks and scared for life.
Tell that to those that will never be able to afford their own home and will have to live in private rented accommodation as the council housing stock is immediately allocated to the newly arrived family of five.
Tell that to thousands of parents whose child is in a class of 50 and one of only three whites that never get any time spent on them.
Tell that to the patients who suffered from malpractice because the qualifications were from another country written on the back of a fag packet.
I see no benefits of allowing TWENTY million plus into a country in less than 30 years.
Oh, the establishment got a higher GNI and employers got cheap labour.. None of that benefits me...none.
You are of the type that has thrown away their heritage for a cheap kebab made from floor sweepings of the abattoir.
In reply to Post #35
My point was that the financial tariff would be a deterrent for the vehicles coming in, £12.50 plus your fuel and parking is not sustainable. I wasn't supporting it as an additional motoring tax, as you say who knows what hole the revenue will fall down.
Either way, something has to be done to clean up the air our kids have to breathe in inner cities. The ULEZ is certainly not a perfect solution, but unfortunately hitting the pocket seems to be the only way people will make a change.
It seems the political scientists from Non Carp are arriving, so I'm out
My point was that the financial tariff would be a deterrent for the vehicles coming in, £12.50 plus your fuel and parking is not sustainable. I wasn't supporting it as an additional motoring tax, as you say who knows what hole the revenue will fall down.
Either way, something has to be done to clean up the air our kids have to breathe in inner cities. The ULEZ is certainly not a perfect solution, but unfortunately hitting the pocket seems to be the only way people will make a change.
It seems the political scientists from Non Carp are arriving, so I'm out