In reply to Post #30
true mate re meat products, all down to ph values post slaughter, thats not that same for every protein, but all meat changes profile the second its slaughtered, the effects on meat quality leading up to slaughter is huge. PSE (Pale, Soft & Exudative) in Pork, DFD (Dark, Firm & Dry) in beef. Both mainly caused by high stress levels leading up to slaughter and OR exhaustion. Plus you wouldnt want to eat most meat without "hanging" for sometime and bringing down to a core temperature of below 5C, but best practice is between 0c and 3c, much colder and its a pain to bone out and butcher, warmer exceeds legal regulations for food safety critical limits.
Chilling can have a dramatic effect on meat, if chilled too quickly, the meat goes through, what we call "Cold Shortening" of which renders it reducing in size up to 2/3rds in size, makes it very tuff and dark, therefore the correct process with regards to temperature reduction is crucial.
Fish are no different and they can remain in a "fresh" state if looked after in the correct way. Mainly temperature of said product. When fish arrive at said processing plant, the fish will be, and have to be kept at a constant temperature level pre production, if its not, the processor rejects on delivery. (legal regulation for food safety critical limits)
re traceability, every meat/fish product has traceability records on them by labelling laws. If they are not present, then they should not be sold. These traceability records have to be kept and have to be produced when asked for under inspection and for any cases in court for due-diligence defence. without them, said producer will face heavy fines.
Edit - All food products meat or not have to have a traceability code for the producer/consumer by law
true mate re meat products, all down to ph values post slaughter, thats not that same for every protein, but all meat changes profile the second its slaughtered, the effects on meat quality leading up to slaughter is huge. PSE (Pale, Soft & Exudative) in Pork, DFD (Dark, Firm & Dry) in beef. Both mainly caused by high stress levels leading up to slaughter and OR exhaustion. Plus you wouldnt want to eat most meat without "hanging" for sometime and bringing down to a core temperature of below 5C, but best practice is between 0c and 3c, much colder and its a pain to bone out and butcher, warmer exceeds legal regulations for food safety critical limits.
Chilling can have a dramatic effect on meat, if chilled too quickly, the meat goes through, what we call "Cold Shortening" of which renders it reducing in size up to 2/3rds in size, makes it very tuff and dark, therefore the correct process with regards to temperature reduction is crucial.
Fish are no different and they can remain in a "fresh" state if looked after in the correct way. Mainly temperature of said product. When fish arrive at said processing plant, the fish will be, and have to be kept at a constant temperature level pre production, if its not, the processor rejects on delivery. (legal regulation for food safety critical limits)
re traceability, every meat/fish product has traceability records on them by labelling laws. If they are not present, then they should not be sold. These traceability records have to be kept and have to be produced when asked for under inspection and for any cases in court for due-diligence defence. without them, said producer will face heavy fines.
Edit - All food products meat or not have to have a traceability code for the producer/consumer by law
In reply to Post #31
Are you in to pigs
Are you in to pigs
In reply to Post #32
put it this way.
i look after
2 sites that kill and process 6500 pigs per day per site
2 other sites that do on average 3000 pigs per day per site
i also look after multiple sites that process 1200 cattle a day
two sheep plants that vary depending on time of yr, but averagely 4000 sheep per day
one site that produces 40,000 chickens a day
two sites that kill 100,000 ducks, geese and stag turkeys a day
so you could say yes
put it this way.
i look after
2 sites that kill and process 6500 pigs per day per site
2 other sites that do on average 3000 pigs per day per site
i also look after multiple sites that process 1200 cattle a day
two sheep plants that vary depending on time of yr, but averagely 4000 sheep per day
one site that produces 40,000 chickens a day
two sites that kill 100,000 ducks, geese and stag turkeys a day
so you could say yes
In reply to Post #31
Interesting, as you know I'm a fan of my local farm shop and it's butchers department, all their own or local farm meats except for the deli stuff. Everything I buy in there is wrapped indevidualy and in separate paper bag. Never taken much notice but each item only has one ticket stuck on it normally torn when opening the bag, not looked closely but think it has weight per kg and bag weight, price, date and a long code which I assume is the trace part. Interesting the temperature side of things, the butcher has always told me it's best to cook any of the meats from room temperature and not straight from the fridge, especially steaks which I like the pan red hot just to seal the outside and leave the inside almost raw.
Interesting, as you know I'm a fan of my local farm shop and it's butchers department, all their own or local farm meats except for the deli stuff. Everything I buy in there is wrapped indevidualy and in separate paper bag. Never taken much notice but each item only has one ticket stuck on it normally torn when opening the bag, not looked closely but think it has weight per kg and bag weight, price, date and a long code which I assume is the trace part. Interesting the temperature side of things, the butcher has always told me it's best to cook any of the meats from room temperature and not straight from the fridge, especially steaks which I like the pan red hot just to seal the outside and leave the inside almost raw.
In reply to Post #33
That's plenty to do
That's plenty to do
In reply to Post #34
Local butchers/farm shops are brilliant, i train alot of butchers in various parts of the country from Cornwall to up "Tut" north. You will find that low through put business dont have to put a bar code on their products, unless its pre packed, ie vac pac or cling filmed, of which amazes me at times. but a receipt of purchase is sufficient as proof of purchase and then if anything was wrong, one can go back to producer and their traceability records "should" match up with said product, including EU abattoir plant number, everyone has its very own, kill date etc
agree mate re cooking temps, but producers have to follow their rules and take into account "idiots"
but as part of retaining the quality of the meat, and following regulations during the processing part, we have to abide by FSA rules (Food Standard Agency)
When at home, the consumer can pretty much do what they like, as once its left said butchers, and they have done everything to cover their due diligence procedures, then that's fine and they wont get into trouble if someone gets ill.
steak, yes, like a fine wine requires removing from a fridge and left to "warm up", but not for too long, or bacteria is prone to grow. You can argue that the bacteria is only surface based, therefore dies under high temperatures during the cooking process. Not all bacteria is bad for us, in fact we need it, but the "Pathogenic" bacteria will cause us issues.
what you will find when meat is cooked "cold" its shrinks in the pan more.
Local butchers/farm shops are brilliant, i train alot of butchers in various parts of the country from Cornwall to up "Tut" north. You will find that low through put business dont have to put a bar code on their products, unless its pre packed, ie vac pac or cling filmed, of which amazes me at times. but a receipt of purchase is sufficient as proof of purchase and then if anything was wrong, one can go back to producer and their traceability records "should" match up with said product, including EU abattoir plant number, everyone has its very own, kill date etc
agree mate re cooking temps, but producers have to follow their rules and take into account "idiots"
but as part of retaining the quality of the meat, and following regulations during the processing part, we have to abide by FSA rules (Food Standard Agency)
When at home, the consumer can pretty much do what they like, as once its left said butchers, and they have done everything to cover their due diligence procedures, then that's fine and they wont get into trouble if someone gets ill.
steak, yes, like a fine wine requires removing from a fridge and left to "warm up", but not for too long, or bacteria is prone to grow. You can argue that the bacteria is only surface based, therefore dies under high temperatures during the cooking process. Not all bacteria is bad for us, in fact we need it, but the "Pathogenic" bacteria will cause us issues.
what you will find when meat is cooked "cold" its shrinks in the pan more.
In reply to Post #35
too much sometimes mate.
im one of the few people in the country that train and issue slaughter licenses.
Love my job and all thats involved. i also spend alot of time developing qualifications and consultancy work within the general food industry
too much sometimes mate.
im one of the few people in the country that train and issue slaughter licenses.
Love my job and all thats involved. i also spend alot of time developing qualifications and consultancy work within the general food industry
In reply to Post #37
So, minus my waffling, each fishmeal bag will contain a traceability code and batch number, of which batches are tested for various things, fat level, protein, moisture blah blah so that it meets correct guided specifications.
where things can get complicated is the variations of specifications. Most, if not all products have various uses that dictate different specifications.
So, minus my waffling, each fishmeal bag will contain a traceability code and batch number, of which batches are tested for various things, fat level, protein, moisture blah blah so that it meets correct guided specifications.
where things can get complicated is the variations of specifications. Most, if not all products have various uses that dictate different specifications.
In reply to Post #37
Thanks for info,
Thanks for info,
In reply to Post #28
The electricity costs to run freezers more than outweighs the cost of the preservation, so of course it comes into it
The electricity costs to run freezers more than outweighs the cost of the preservation, so of course it comes into it
In reply to Post #39
A tad too much most probably
A tad too much most probably
In reply to Post #38
Assume the rolling company licence's are to ensure compliance with storage and traceability ect. Could be a nightmare for the small company to maintain use able stock with minimal waste in such a fickle market.
Assume the rolling company licence's are to ensure compliance with storage and traceability ect. Could be a nightmare for the small company to maintain use able stock with minimal waste in such a fickle market.
In reply to Post #42
Now thats something im not familiar with on the whole.
i know the bait producer i use stores all dry products correctly and follows stock rotation, im sure that big boys also do, but im also confident there's a few smaller ones that possibly dont, nor possibly have the knowledge of the rules.
Now thats something im not familiar with on the whole.
i know the bait producer i use stores all dry products correctly and follows stock rotation, im sure that big boys also do, but im also confident there's a few smaller ones that possibly dont, nor possibly have the knowledge of the rules.
In reply to Post #37
Your job, involves a wealth of experience Frenzy. Wow.
So much more than being just a carp forum MOD
Your job, involves a wealth of experience Frenzy. Wow.
So much more than being just a carp forum MOD
In reply to Post #44
been in it along time mate. I always tell my students "one thing i cant teach is experience"
Im heavily involved with farm to fork and everything in between from welfare, process flow, through to meat and food technology. I have a degree in food technology, studied at Bristol Uni in between working, then set my business up 19 years ago.
not as daft as i make out most the time
That's what's always made me smile when i read things about bait. all the "experts"
been in it along time mate. I always tell my students "one thing i cant teach is experience"
Im heavily involved with farm to fork and everything in between from welfare, process flow, through to meat and food technology. I have a degree in food technology, studied at Bristol Uni in between working, then set my business up 19 years ago.
not as daft as i make out most the time
That's what's always made me smile when i read things about bait. all the "experts"