I really miss the days of this forum where the majority of the bait section contributors either actually knew what they were on about OR actually listened to those who did know what they were on about.
The amount of part truths, missed points, and ill-informed opinions on the bait section these days completely ruins this part of the forum.
Reading through these narrow-minded comments, it's really not worth contributing
Tough to change closed minds.
The amount of part truths, missed points, and ill-informed opinions on the bait section these days completely ruins this part of the forum.
Reading through these narrow-minded comments, it's really not worth contributing
Tough to change closed minds.
In reply to Post #31
Care to expand on that Sam?
Are you saying fresh frozen is superior? If so, how do you come to that conclusion?
Care to expand on that Sam?
Are you saying fresh frozen is superior? If so, how do you come to that conclusion?
I've made and used both shelf life a freezer baits. My current bait is OK in its shelf life form but I do catch more with the freezer version. They look, feel and taste the same to me. The breakdown time in water is the same. But freezer versions just seem better.
The above is based on using the same bait for 10 years or so.
I am working on a new bait, a few things I am keen to try plus two of the previous ingredients are just not available any more. This new bait has some active ingredients which are stopped when frozen and killed off completely when preserved so I won't even try a shelf life version.
So to me some shelf life baits are fine but not all. As jo-public buying them in a bag I would have know way of knowing one from the other.
The above is based on using the same bait for 10 years or so.
I am working on a new bait, a few things I am keen to try plus two of the previous ingredients are just not available any more. This new bait has some active ingredients which are stopped when frozen and killed off completely when preserved so I won't even try a shelf life version.
So to me some shelf life baits are fine but not all. As jo-public buying them in a bag I would have know way of knowing one from the other.
In reply to Post #31
Also interested to know. You clearly know more than most of us.
Also interested to know. You clearly know more than most of us.
In reply to Post #31
Maybe the problem is people thinking they are better than others or no more
Maybe the problem is people thinking they are better than others or no more
In reply to Post #31
Come on, he's got a podcast, he must know what he's talking about
Come on, he's got a podcast, he must know what he's talking about
In reply to Post #35
To be fair he does know a lot about bait, i will admit my bait knowledge is limited but one thing i do know is there are certain things i have used in bait that lose there effectiveness if the bait is preserved( with the preservatives i know of) but remain if the bait is frozen.
So for me and the bait i make it will always be frozen and i'm not stuck in my ways for doing so, it is better.
To be fair he does know a lot about bait, i will admit my bait knowledge is limited but one thing i do know is there are certain things i have used in bait that lose there effectiveness if the bait is preserved( with the preservatives i know of) but remain if the bait is frozen.
So for me and the bait i make it will always be frozen and i'm not stuck in my ways for doing so, it is better.
In reply to Post #31
Do enlighten us...
Do enlighten us...
In reply to Post #37
Surely that's the same for freezing and some things become less effective?
Surely that's the same for freezing and some things become less effective?
In reply to Post #33
What preservative are you using?
What preservative are you using?
Sorry fellas, I was a bit harsh to be fair!
My mistake, please accept my apology
For what it's worth- I went through a phase of using shelf life's but I just can't get away from the fact that they are a compromise.
Some of the best baits I've used are at their very best when they are “on the turn” or “sweated up”, unfortunately you can't get that with a shelf life.
Also, some ingredients are unable to do their thing (that's science talk) when in a preserved bundle. This is certainly not just limited to enzymes (make of those what you will).
I'm also dubious of how long these baits stay on the bottom of the lake bed. There's been numerous cases of big beds of uneaten shelf life bait just sitting on the lake bed in limbo somewhere between not rotting down and not being edible to fish. This isn't just the older style shelf life's either
Something else worth noting is that the ingredients in shelf life's just sit there aging (not in a good way) which affects their potency. Freezing after a little drying means all those precious ingredients stay in tact as much as possible.
PS whether I have a podcast or not is totally irrelevant.
I am still allowed an opinion surely! I'm not a bait guru and I certainly don't need to be.
My mistake, please accept my apology
For what it's worth- I went through a phase of using shelf life's but I just can't get away from the fact that they are a compromise.
Some of the best baits I've used are at their very best when they are “on the turn” or “sweated up”, unfortunately you can't get that with a shelf life.
Also, some ingredients are unable to do their thing (that's science talk) when in a preserved bundle. This is certainly not just limited to enzymes (make of those what you will).
I'm also dubious of how long these baits stay on the bottom of the lake bed. There's been numerous cases of big beds of uneaten shelf life bait just sitting on the lake bed in limbo somewhere between not rotting down and not being edible to fish. This isn't just the older style shelf life's either
Something else worth noting is that the ingredients in shelf life's just sit there aging (not in a good way) which affects their potency. Freezing after a little drying means all those precious ingredients stay in tact as much as possible.
PS whether I have a podcast or not is totally irrelevant.
I am still allowed an opinion surely! I'm not a bait guru and I certainly don't need to be.
In reply to Post #41
Although I make most of my bait every year I buy a batch or two from other bait companies just to have a play with.
Interesting that you say about turned baits. They seem popular again at the moment with some of the Korda guys recently talking about there baits being at the best when on the turn. I've never stopped using them since they were last popular in the late 80's (richworth freezer baits).
About 3 or 4 years ago I had a shelf life bait that would turn just like a freezer bait (covered in white spots that seemed to be sugar). It took a lot longer to turn, about 3-4 weeks in my garage or 3-4 months in my bait fridge. I am not going to name brands (and it wasn't a big brand) but he has now changed this bait and the last batch I had from him didn't turn the same. I have kept 1/2/kg in the bottom of my fridge for over 2 years now to see if it turns and it still hasn't
Although I make most of my bait every year I buy a batch or two from other bait companies just to have a play with.
Interesting that you say about turned baits. They seem popular again at the moment with some of the Korda guys recently talking about there baits being at the best when on the turn. I've never stopped using them since they were last popular in the late 80's (richworth freezer baits).
About 3 or 4 years ago I had a shelf life bait that would turn just like a freezer bait (covered in white spots that seemed to be sugar). It took a lot longer to turn, about 3-4 weeks in my garage or 3-4 months in my bait fridge. I am not going to name brands (and it wasn't a big brand) but he has now changed this bait and the last batch I had from him didn't turn the same. I have kept 1/2/kg in the bottom of my fridge for over 2 years now to see if it turns and it still hasn't
In reply to Post #41
I certainly can't get my Enzyme baits to work properly in either a shelf life or air-dried state.
In my view, it probably doesn't matter a great deal on day ticket venues/puddles/overseas commercials, as those venues see so much bait and are heavily stocked so the fish are reliant on bait.
However, on lower stock, bigger syndicate/club waters where you are engaging in a campaign, I've yet to see any form of shelf like bait feature in the armoury of any of the top rods over the last 30 years on loads of waters. In fact it's completely the opposite. Too many examples.. But from last year, a good angler, on a BCSG water, decided to use Quest shelf life's.....he did not even have a bite all year....
I certainly can't get my Enzyme baits to work properly in either a shelf life or air-dried state.
In my view, it probably doesn't matter a great deal on day ticket venues/puddles/overseas commercials, as those venues see so much bait and are heavily stocked so the fish are reliant on bait.
However, on lower stock, bigger syndicate/club waters where you are engaging in a campaign, I've yet to see any form of shelf like bait feature in the armoury of any of the top rods over the last 30 years on loads of waters. In fact it's completely the opposite. Too many examples.. But from last year, a good angler, on a BCSG water, decided to use Quest shelf life's.....he did not even have a bite all year....
In reply to Post #42
Funny you say that- it was Richworths that I first used “turned”! Although it was more recent than the 80's for me. Ive done it with certain baits ever since. Makes a big difference in my opinion.
I think everything comes and goes in and out of fashion. Most things at least. The riser leads are something that doesn't ever seem to come back in to fashion (although I could have missed this). Those are great. Same can be said for turning freezer baits
Funny you say that- it was Richworths that I first used “turned”! Although it was more recent than the 80's for me. Ive done it with certain baits ever since. Makes a big difference in my opinion.
I think everything comes and goes in and out of fashion. Most things at least. The riser leads are something that doesn't ever seem to come back in to fashion (although I could have missed this). Those are great. Same can be said for turning freezer baits
In reply to Post #43
Great points there Roland, and I've just realised who you are!
Great points there Roland, and I've just realised who you are!