In reply to Post #15
I use raw liver that's put through a mincer turning it to a puree. This is then mixed with a little water, citric acid and enzymes. To keep things user friendly I then chuck the stinky mixture in a heat sealed bag and dropped in a halogen oven on lowest setting until done.
I use raw liver that's put through a mincer turning it to a puree. This is then mixed with a little water, citric acid and enzymes. To keep things user friendly I then chuck the stinky mixture in a heat sealed bag and dropped in a halogen oven on lowest setting until done.
In reply to Post #16
That's very interesting. May i ask what you are achieving via use of the halogen oven?
Not knowing the temperature settings on those ovens, i am fascinated what this does for your Hydro? Sorry, I must have read that wrong. The oven is to get it to the working temps. Blame it on too much son today.
Thanks.
That's very interesting. May i ask what you are achieving via use of the halogen oven?
Not knowing the temperature settings on those ovens, i am fascinated what this does for your Hydro? Sorry, I must have read that wrong. The oven is to get it to the working temps. Blame it on too much son today.
Thanks.
In reply to Post #17
Sorry, that reply was somewhat rushed. The oven is indeed set to its lowest setting 60c which is ample to give maximum enzyme activity to achieve hydrolosis.
Sorry, that reply was somewhat rushed. The oven is indeed set to its lowest setting 60c which is ample to give maximum enzyme activity to achieve hydrolosis.
In reply to Post #18
I would imagine the Citric acid will preserve your Liver hydro to some extent. What sort of shelflife are you getting with that? Refrigerated No doubt?
Would a high sugar infusion not be beneficial also? One, to help with the taste aspect and secondly to aid preservation?
Being a flesh product and although being subjected to hydrolysis I would have thought that you would need something more than citric, however you could up the citric levels whilst infusing with say certain invert or bulk natural sugars.
I would imagine the Citric acid will preserve your Liver hydro to some extent. What sort of shelflife are you getting with that? Refrigerated No doubt?
Would a high sugar infusion not be beneficial also? One, to help with the taste aspect and secondly to aid preservation?
Being a flesh product and although being subjected to hydrolysis I would have thought that you would need something more than citric, however you could up the citric levels whilst infusing with say certain invert or bulk natural sugars.
In reply to Post #19
Because I make it in a heat sealed pouch, if I heat the finished product to 65c then in theory it will sterilise the mixture until its opened. With the addition of citric it, as you said help somewhat. I have considered adding maltose from maize conversion to add a di saccharide source but haven't got that far with it just yet. I've also considered different acids but wanted to play it safe with citric to see what happens and so far I'm quite happy with the finished product. There are still plenty of bits in the mix, mostly sinews that aren't enzyme friendly but these are left in as I don't want to miss out on the nutrients available from the liver..
Because I make it in a heat sealed pouch, if I heat the finished product to 65c then in theory it will sterilise the mixture until its opened. With the addition of citric it, as you said help somewhat. I have considered adding maltose from maize conversion to add a di saccharide source but haven't got that far with it just yet. I've also considered different acids but wanted to play it safe with citric to see what happens and so far I'm quite happy with the finished product. There are still plenty of bits in the mix, mostly sinews that aren't enzyme friendly but these are left in as I don't want to miss out on the nutrients available from the liver..
In reply to Post #20
Un-defatted is the way to go for personal use.
I am wondering what the difference would be in an effective hydro between the pureed version and by using the equivalent of actual Beef Liver powder?
Thank you for your time and answers. That has got the brain going .
Un-defatted is the way to go for personal use.
I am wondering what the difference would be in an effective hydro between the pureed version and by using the equivalent of actual Beef Liver powder?
Thank you for your time and answers. That has got the brain going .
In reply to Post #21
I'm at the beginning of this journey so it's nice to chat and get some new ideas
. I should imagine you would get a better quality product using the liver powder with its iirc better protein % but that's gonna be a more expensive way to do it I should think?
I'm at the beginning of this journey so it's nice to chat and get some new ideas
. I should imagine you would get a better quality product using the liver powder with its iirc better protein % but that's gonna be a more expensive way to do it I should think?
In reply to Post #22
Without question it will be more expensive. Roughly a 30-33% return of powder to each kilo of Fresh Liver used so your raw materials alone are , with the liver at least ,3 times more. Stability i would imagine of the finished product and longevity would i suspect be better. All trial and error i suppose. It's how the inquisitive learn i guess. Will have to try me a few batches and report back in due course.
Thanks.
Without question it will be more expensive. Roughly a 30-33% return of powder to each kilo of Fresh Liver used so your raw materials alone are , with the liver at least ,3 times more. Stability i would imagine of the finished product and longevity would i suspect be better. All trial and error i suppose. It's how the inquisitive learn i guess. Will have to try me a few batches and report back in due course.
Thanks.
In reply to Post #22
Some thought provoking reading there Lincs, nice that you share it
Hope it works for you
Some thought provoking reading there Lincs, nice that you share it
Hope it works for you
In reply to Post #24
I'm always happy to share my thinking mate, there's always someone who knows more than me and I always hope that the help can go both ways.
I'm always happy to share my thinking mate, there's always someone who knows more than me and I always hope that the help can go both ways.
In reply to Post #25
Same here
Out of interest are you planning on using it in your bait or as a glug
Same here
Out of interest are you planning on using it in your bait or as a glug
In reply to Post #26
A bit of both mate. My original thinking was to use the hydro gluten as a separate soluble protein source but having read what the other lads have put I'm now thinking of a gluten/liver combo to widen the aa profile and have the taste effect from the liver. The thinking of the gluten was to utilise the glutamate which is pretty high in wheat as by my thinking its pretty attractive to carp. You'd laugh, but the basemix is a very old school one that I've been having a lot of success with and the addition of the hydros is there to make them as effective as possible...
A bit of both mate. My original thinking was to use the hydro gluten as a separate soluble protein source but having read what the other lads have put I'm now thinking of a gluten/liver combo to widen the aa profile and have the taste effect from the liver. The thinking of the gluten was to utilise the glutamate which is pretty high in wheat as by my thinking its pretty attractive to carp. You'd laugh, but the basemix is a very old school one that I've been having a lot of success with and the addition of the hydros is there to make them as effective as possible...
In reply to Post #27
Must admit mate you may have something very potent and different of your hands there!
Guess it makes total sense to have it in the bait but 1/2 pint of that on the lakebed that has not been through the boiling process is getting me excited lol
Must admit mate you may have something very potent and different of your hands there!
Guess it makes total sense to have it in the bait but 1/2 pint of that on the lakebed that has not been through the boiling process is getting me excited lol
In reply to Post #28
Interesting you should mention that, the gluten hydro is very "heavy" and sinks like a brick! Whereas the liver is more of a clouder. I had an evening session last week and a spod full of the hydro certainly got something going and had the carp digging up the mud/silt for quite some time, a reaction that I hadn't previously seen on the lake. I'm also fishing a fenland river this year so hoping to use it as a heavy liquid to drift slowly down the river in the lower levels.
Interesting you should mention that, the gluten hydro is very "heavy" and sinks like a brick! Whereas the liver is more of a clouder. I had an evening session last week and a spod full of the hydro certainly got something going and had the carp digging up the mud/silt for quite some time, a reaction that I hadn't previously seen on the lake. I'm also fishing a fenland river this year so hoping to use it as a heavy liquid to drift slowly down the river in the lower levels.
In reply to Post #28
Just to add, it's not boiled so still retains a lot of enzymatic activity and hasn't boiled out any of the nutrients and the boilies are only skinned to maximise everything
Just to add, it's not boiled so still retains a lot of enzymatic activity and hasn't boiled out any of the nutrients and the boilies are only skinned to maximise everything