@Spinbowler & Chuffy
That's the video. Think I even linked that in the email I sent Korda. That video guy is bang on the money.
Don't want to come across as I'm singling out Korda, far from it. Many tackle companies have their take on loosing the lead helicopter style. I now just use the fixed lead helicopter rig just because if something does go wrong when either the line parts whilst playing a fish or cracks off and there's a live rig sitting in the water, the normally affixed lead is about as safe as I can make it.
I used to use lead clips all the time since they've been available, this is just as bad, if not worse than a lead loosing helicopter setup simply because if the line parts and a fish is trailing a line around if or after the lead has fallen off could be deadly to a fish should the trailing line get trapped on something. Yeah, hooks might work loose over time, but as caring anglers, are we prepared to take that chance on ifs, buts and maybes?
Most of what I say could be moot if you fish somewhere where that's just a hole in the ground, with no weed, no zebra mussels or snags, I don't fish those sorts of places, so I've adjusted my rigs accordingly.
That's the video. Think I even linked that in the email I sent Korda. That video guy is bang on the money.
Don't want to come across as I'm singling out Korda, far from it. Many tackle companies have their take on loosing the lead helicopter style. I now just use the fixed lead helicopter rig just because if something does go wrong when either the line parts whilst playing a fish or cracks off and there's a live rig sitting in the water, the normally affixed lead is about as safe as I can make it.
I used to use lead clips all the time since they've been available, this is just as bad, if not worse than a lead loosing helicopter setup simply because if the line parts and a fish is trailing a line around if or after the lead has fallen off could be deadly to a fish should the trailing line get trapped on something. Yeah, hooks might work loose over time, but as caring anglers, are we prepared to take that chance on ifs, buts and maybes?
Most of what I say could be moot if you fish somewhere where that's just a hole in the ground, with no weed, no zebra mussels or snags, I don't fish those sorts of places, so I've adjusted my rigs accordingly.
In reply to Post #9
Big ears thinks the same too
Big ears thinks the same too
Uber.
In reply to Post #15
That vid I have seen before and does not say heli safes should be banned, it actually shows they can be settup not to drop the lead making them use full for anyone that wants the ability to change the lead quickly although a clip would be cheaper. Also on the subject of fish safety that guy is using lead core which is of Moor danger to the fish than the heli safe if set up correctly.
That vid I have seen before and does not say heli safes should be banned, it actually shows they can be settup not to drop the lead making them use full for anyone that wants the ability to change the lead quickly although a clip would be cheaper. Also on the subject of fish safety that guy is using lead core which is of Moor danger to the fish than the heli safe if set up correctly.
In reply to Post #20
No-one said he thinks they should be "banned" but I think they should. Man, why do people add s hit that ain't there?
So a figure of eight knot isn't that much slower (free) than a Korda, Nash etc Heli kit thing? If they make them permanently fixed, great, if not, f uck um off.
The leadcore point you make is sort of moot. Ok, leadcore will take a gorillian years to break down, mono on the other hand, how long does 15lb mono take until a fish can swim away free, or fluorocarbon with a life of how many billions of years till that breaks down?
Let's stay on point and not get distracted by other possible fish killers. Start another thread about leadcore whatever if you so wish.
No-one said he thinks they should be "banned" but I think they should. Man, why do people add s hit that ain't there?
So a figure of eight knot isn't that much slower (free) than a Korda, Nash etc Heli kit thing? If they make them permanently fixed, great, if not, f uck um off.
The leadcore point you make is sort of moot. Ok, leadcore will take a gorillian years to break down, mono on the other hand, how long does 15lb mono take until a fish can swim away free, or fluorocarbon with a life of how many billions of years till that breaks down?
Let's stay on point and not get distracted by other possible fish killers. Start another thread about leadcore whatever if you so wish.
I don't like the Korda heli safe just because I found when you use them and you hit the clip the lead comes off, I use a fox one you can fit a little pin in so it holds the lead and doesn't drop the lead with this bit in
In reply to Post #21
No-one said he thinks they should be "banned" but I think they should. Man, why do people add s hit that ain't there?
Think you'll find you did, post 3 **** that is there.
No-one said he thinks they should be "banned" but I think they should. Man, why do people add s hit that ain't there?
Think you'll find you did, post 3 **** that is there.
In reply to Post #23
I should have phrased it to eliminate any chance of misinterpretation or ambiguity even though I believed my post to be reasonably clear.
Should have said 'No-one other than me said they should be "banned", I'll reafirm again that they should be banned.
I should have phrased it to eliminate any chance of misinterpretation or ambiguity even though I believed my post to be reasonably clear.
Should have said 'No-one other than me said they should be "banned", I'll reafirm again that they should be banned.
In reply to Post #24
As people have such strong opinions on these and having never caught the chod or helicopter bug I bought a pack today. First thought by the product name ie safe if the manufacturer believes this why the option to drop or retain the lead, which is safer? Korda only answer please as obvious that those here know. Second was this another product to catch the angler, did the packaging cost as much to produce as the product, at £6 for two they're on a winner £3 to drop one of their leads at £1.60 a pop I now agree ban them. Someone is taking the p1sh.
As people have such strong opinions on these and having never caught the chod or helicopter bug I bought a pack today. First thought by the product name ie safe if the manufacturer believes this why the option to drop or retain the lead, which is safer? Korda only answer please as obvious that those here know. Second was this another product to catch the angler, did the packaging cost as much to produce as the product, at £6 for two they're on a winner £3 to drop one of their leads at £1.60 a pop I now agree ban them. Someone is taking the p1sh.
In reply to Post #25
It's only very recently that I've started to use the helicopter rig even though I've been fishing predominantly for carp well before the helicopter rig was ever invented.
I'll hold my hands up and say that I was sheep-like and bought them (Helisafe's) unthinking, it wasn't until I lost a fish whilst using them that got the grey matter going. Seems to me that whilst trying to solve a problem, they've - companies that make drop off systems - have created a problem. The response I got from some junior customer care at Korda, or whatever the department was (paraphrasing badly as I can't find the emails and the memory is shot to bits) that they don't see a problem and there's no numbers of dead fish being reported because of their system. Fair enough, but like I said to him, what about fish that get all tangled up in weedbeds, snags etc that no-one will ever know about and that can't you see the flaw in the product? No email back.
The other thing which has been argued to death but is well worth making the point about is leads littering lakebeds. I'm aware that Mr Fairbrass has addressed this issue and gone to lengths trying to downplay the significance of leaching of lead into the water column. Maybe the coatings on his leads are long lasting, but after a while, dropping Korda leads becomes expensive, so you look for cheaper alternatives like eBay where the coatings chip and fall off, until you're left with a bare lead... leaching toxin's into the water column.
Not trying to be controversial here by saying this: as far as I'm concerned, anything other than a fixed lead on a helicopter/chod set up should anything go wrong in my book could be lethal which includes leadclip setups.
It's only very recently that I've started to use the helicopter rig even though I've been fishing predominantly for carp well before the helicopter rig was ever invented.
I'll hold my hands up and say that I was sheep-like and bought them (Helisafe's) unthinking, it wasn't until I lost a fish whilst using them that got the grey matter going. Seems to me that whilst trying to solve a problem, they've - companies that make drop off systems - have created a problem. The response I got from some junior customer care at Korda, or whatever the department was (paraphrasing badly as I can't find the emails and the memory is shot to bits) that they don't see a problem and there's no numbers of dead fish being reported because of their system. Fair enough, but like I said to him, what about fish that get all tangled up in weedbeds, snags etc that no-one will ever know about and that can't you see the flaw in the product? No email back.
The other thing which has been argued to death but is well worth making the point about is leads littering lakebeds. I'm aware that Mr Fairbrass has addressed this issue and gone to lengths trying to downplay the significance of leaching of lead into the water column. Maybe the coatings on his leads are long lasting, but after a while, dropping Korda leads becomes expensive, so you look for cheaper alternatives like eBay where the coatings chip and fall off, until you're left with a bare lead... leaching toxin's into the water column.
Not trying to be controversial here by saying this: as far as I'm concerned, anything other than a fixed lead on a helicopter/chod set up should anything go wrong in my book could be lethal which includes leadclip setups.
In reply to Post #26
Helicopter rig was invented or paternosters got renamed?
Helicopter rig was invented or paternosters got renamed?
In reply to Post #27
The helicopter is an adaptation of what came before it. In the context of this thread, it matters not.
The helicopter is an adaptation of what came before it. In the context of this thread, it matters not.
In reply to Post #28
Helicopter is just a name given to a lead set up known by various names in different disciplines
Carp anglers have, as is the norm, over complicated and profiteered from something very simple that's been around for donkeys.
I agree with you about these silly drop of kits, but I'm also an advocate of light hook links which seems a forgotten and obvious safety measure
Helicopter is just a name given to a lead set up known by various names in different disciplines
Carp anglers have, as is the norm, over complicated and profiteered from something very simple that's been around for donkeys.
I agree with you about these silly drop of kits, but I'm also an advocate of light hook links which seems a forgotten and obvious safety measure
In reply to Post #29
Me too in respect to lighter hook lengths. As counterintuitive as it would seem, surely the hooklength should be the weakest link so as to give fish a chance if anything goes wrong?
Putting my cynical cap on for a moment: as much as tackle companies might say to the contrary and that it's nothing to do with making money, the company's that make these systems, their lead profits since these systems came into play must have gone stratospheric with people dropping leads constantly.
You're right, there has been borrowing from different types of angling in the carp scene, then again, it's a two way street, but I take your point 👍
Goose made a good point earlier about the Helisafe packaging: the big players like Korda etc have got very skilled marketing /R&D eams dedicated to come up with new *things* to keep the profits rolling in, and part and parcel of the *things* is the ever increasingly well presented packaging; man, it's like being under psychological attack. I'm guilty of falling prey to well presented *things*.
Me too in respect to lighter hook lengths. As counterintuitive as it would seem, surely the hooklength should be the weakest link so as to give fish a chance if anything goes wrong?
Putting my cynical cap on for a moment: as much as tackle companies might say to the contrary and that it's nothing to do with making money, the company's that make these systems, their lead profits since these systems came into play must have gone stratospheric with people dropping leads constantly.
You're right, there has been borrowing from different types of angling in the carp scene, then again, it's a two way street, but I take your point 👍
Goose made a good point earlier about the Helisafe packaging: the big players like Korda etc have got very skilled marketing /R&D eams dedicated to come up with new *things* to keep the profits rolling in, and part and parcel of the *things* is the ever increasingly well presented packaging; man, it's like being under psychological attack. I'm guilty of falling prey to well presented *things*.