In reply to Post #277
I mean by flushing, use of one way gates, leaving gates open, running dogs through the complex that sort of thing
There are few people that keep otters as pets for obvious reasons ... if any are kept, and there are some then they have to have a licence to keep them the same as a zoo in captivity. That is monitored ongoing. Most of those captives are Asian Short Clawed otters and would be illegal to release into the wild as it is a non native species
It is not illegal to release an orphaned otter that has been rehabilitated back into the wild so any prosecution would be unlikely
I personally fully get the amount of distrust and hatred as I experience it every day! Partly, this is down to not understanding some intentions and they are suspicious which is understandable. Portraying the otter wrongly is a pet hate of mine although that said, if its used in the right context then thats fine but its important to make sure its done in the right way
80 waters in Cornwall is worrying - I would be interested to see any evidence you have on that - otters@ukwot.org
Dave
I mean by flushing, use of one way gates, leaving gates open, running dogs through the complex that sort of thing
There are few people that keep otters as pets for obvious reasons ... if any are kept, and there are some then they have to have a licence to keep them the same as a zoo in captivity. That is monitored ongoing. Most of those captives are Asian Short Clawed otters and would be illegal to release into the wild as it is a non native species
It is not illegal to release an orphaned otter that has been rehabilitated back into the wild so any prosecution would be unlikely
I personally fully get the amount of distrust and hatred as I experience it every day! Partly, this is down to not understanding some intentions and they are suspicious which is understandable. Portraying the otter wrongly is a pet hate of mine although that said, if its used in the right context then thats fine but its important to make sure its done in the right way
80 waters in Cornwall is worrying - I would be interested to see any evidence you have on that - otters@ukwot.org
Dave
In reply to Post #280
Ok Dave ,thanks for the reply...
Well,I started collating evidence in 1990 when all my local waters in my area,the Tamar valley slowly and surely became destroyed by predation,I had good long term friends pack it in ,carping,and fishery owners suffer mentally and physically as their business went down the pan..
Cornwall is a small county or was in angling terms,I know lots of people,fishery owners etc...and being a trained photographer and at one time,for over ten years a full time angler,and heavily into nature,countryside and bushcraft,I did indeed build up a huge amount of predation collation evidence of Cornish otter predation..
My saying is no fence,no fish,this is because I cannot find a water that has not been predated by the otter to a low or high level..
Unfortunately I have many,many sad stories,and photos to 100% back up what I have learnt...
Like the human body ,the veins etc ,are likened to the streams,ditches,small spate rivers in the Tamar valley,these motorways ALL are interconnected to the river Kensey in Launceston,guess what's at North pertherwin,? the Tamar otter park,..they have or had info saying how many they used to let go plus,youtube footage of herons being killed ,not to mention their own carp,when a otter got in to the lake,their lake and the owners proudly showed this on youtube..
All this info has been passed on via Carpforum or PAG...
Right now I am witness to a local estate lake being destroyed by this Apex pred...yet another beautiful ecosystem destroyed...for all time
I think along with a lot of people down here the Tamar park,are absolutely detested...not to mention the other people who let otters go....I could write a book very easily on what I have learnt,far,far more than I let on on an open forum
I haven't been to uni,nor am I a clever dicky,I do however have a huge amount of passion for angling and the countryside,...
Right,I'm off to check my fencing round my lake...
Ok Dave ,thanks for the reply...
Well,I started collating evidence in 1990 when all my local waters in my area,the Tamar valley slowly and surely became destroyed by predation,I had good long term friends pack it in ,carping,and fishery owners suffer mentally and physically as their business went down the pan..
Cornwall is a small county or was in angling terms,I know lots of people,fishery owners etc...and being a trained photographer and at one time,for over ten years a full time angler,and heavily into nature,countryside and bushcraft,I did indeed build up a huge amount of predation collation evidence of Cornish otter predation..
My saying is no fence,no fish,this is because I cannot find a water that has not been predated by the otter to a low or high level..
Unfortunately I have many,many sad stories,and photos to 100% back up what I have learnt...
Like the human body ,the veins etc ,are likened to the streams,ditches,small spate rivers in the Tamar valley,these motorways ALL are interconnected to the river Kensey in Launceston,guess what's at North pertherwin,? the Tamar otter park,..they have or had info saying how many they used to let go plus,youtube footage of herons being killed ,not to mention their own carp,when a otter got in to the lake,their lake and the owners proudly showed this on youtube..
All this info has been passed on via Carpforum or PAG...
Right now I am witness to a local estate lake being destroyed by this Apex pred...yet another beautiful ecosystem destroyed...for all time
I think along with a lot of people down here the Tamar park,are absolutely detested...not to mention the other people who let otters go....I could write a book very easily on what I have learnt,far,far more than I let on on an open forum
I haven't been to uni,nor am I a clever dicky,I do however have a huge amount of passion for angling and the countryside,...
Right,I'm off to check my fencing round my lake...
Adam, so far, locally to me, the otter hasn't taken a foothold but, i have no doubt, that it will, unless something realistic is done.
I do know the devestation, and heart ache and anger it has caused in Devon and Cornwall, as after i quit fishing, when on holiday, the draw of these beautiful waters, was what made me give into my deep passion for carp angling again.
I hired gear, and fished some of these waters, and instantly fell off the wagon. I was happy again, as i realised angling was the thing missing in my life.
Ever since, i have watched and heard of how these beautiful tranquil waters have been devasted by these ****ing otter, and nobody seems able to stop the destruction?
The fishery owners are left with a hole in the ground, full of water. Some could say a fishery should be able to pay for fencing but, some charge hardly anything to fish, and cannot afford fencing.
I worked on a barn a few years ago, the farmer allowed me to fish his pond as a gesture, and sometimes his b&b guests were allowed to fish.
They started the b&b as money was tight, so couldn't afford fencing. They have no fish left now, and used to see the otter on there regularly, until the fish were gone.
I imagine all the other places i fished would tell a similar story. I know when i phone them, they just say, we don't have fishing any more, and when i ask why, the otter is always the reason.
So, i feel very sad, angry and frustrated, and i can only imagine how you feel Adam.
Surely presenting evidence, from all concerned including the RSPB, EA, the Wildlife Trust etc, and asking for cull in the worst hit areas, is plausible? If it's not plausible what is?
I do know the devestation, and heart ache and anger it has caused in Devon and Cornwall, as after i quit fishing, when on holiday, the draw of these beautiful waters, was what made me give into my deep passion for carp angling again.
I hired gear, and fished some of these waters, and instantly fell off the wagon. I was happy again, as i realised angling was the thing missing in my life.
Ever since, i have watched and heard of how these beautiful tranquil waters have been devasted by these ****ing otter, and nobody seems able to stop the destruction?
The fishery owners are left with a hole in the ground, full of water. Some could say a fishery should be able to pay for fencing but, some charge hardly anything to fish, and cannot afford fencing.
I worked on a barn a few years ago, the farmer allowed me to fish his pond as a gesture, and sometimes his b&b guests were allowed to fish.
They started the b&b as money was tight, so couldn't afford fencing. They have no fish left now, and used to see the otter on there regularly, until the fish were gone.
I imagine all the other places i fished would tell a similar story. I know when i phone them, they just say, we don't have fishing any more, and when i ask why, the otter is always the reason.
So, i feel very sad, angry and frustrated, and i can only imagine how you feel Adam.
Surely presenting evidence, from all concerned including the RSPB, EA, the Wildlife Trust etc, and asking for cull in the worst hit areas, is plausible? If it's not plausible what is?
In reply to Post #282
Righto,back from fence checking,no debris on the mesh or wires,no spraint on any prominent stones in the river..
Lots of deer tracks around lake perimeter in the snow...
Well,I couldn't have put it better Steve...but as a fourth generation angler,if my place gets done again,that's it I'm done,I have seen far too much ,I know too much now,mentally..
If you got to know me ,you'd find id helped literally loads of local youngsters stay off the booze n drugs that's rife in Cornwall..but trying to explain or show others the full extent of the ecosystem damage is a hard thing to do...
Otters are cute,cuddly and can do no wrong,springwatch says so,so it must be true...👎
Righto,back from fence checking,no debris on the mesh or wires,no spraint on any prominent stones in the river..
Lots of deer tracks around lake perimeter in the snow...
Well,I couldn't have put it better Steve...but as a fourth generation angler,if my place gets done again,that's it I'm done,I have seen far too much ,I know too much now,mentally..
If you got to know me ,you'd find id helped literally loads of local youngsters stay off the booze n drugs that's rife in Cornwall..but trying to explain or show others the full extent of the ecosystem damage is a hard thing to do...
Otters are cute,cuddly and can do no wrong,springwatch says so,so it must be true...👎
In reply to Post #283
Must be like living on a knife edge mate
Must be like living on a knife edge mate
In reply to Post #284
From an angling point of view I'd say definitely,you really don't know what your going to find up the bank dead..
But hey ho,we're only anglers,and anglers and angling doesn't count..
But cute cuddly mustiladae does count...so were bucked..
From an angling point of view I'd say definitely,you really don't know what your going to find up the bank dead..
But hey ho,we're only anglers,and anglers and angling doesn't count..
But cute cuddly mustiladae does count...so were bucked..
In reply to Post #279
Couldn't agree more 👍🏻. The Angling Trust appears the only option for one voice and once we join we then have a voice. I respect their stance on cormorants and think they are at least starting to see the otter menace fir what it is...I'm only 1 noddy carp angler but I will pester the hell out of Angling Times Korda Nash etc on social media to encourage them to speak out and ensure we try and drive up the membership. If all carp anglers were members of the angling trust their agenda would be carp Angling s agenda. I don't see any other solution.
Couldn't agree more 👍🏻. The Angling Trust appears the only option for one voice and once we join we then have a voice. I respect their stance on cormorants and think they are at least starting to see the otter menace fir what it is...I'm only 1 noddy carp angler but I will pester the hell out of Angling Times Korda Nash etc on social media to encourage them to speak out and ensure we try and drive up the membership. If all carp anglers were members of the angling trust their agenda would be carp Angling s agenda. I don't see any other solution.
In reply to Post #278
Good luck persuading anyone to join the AT mate, most people will moan about paying £29 a year, heard all the arguments on other forums in the past about what they do for the money etc etc, not seen it on here yet to be fair.
I doubt it will happen, sorry to be so pessimistic, but NOT only carp anglers every angler in my opinion should join.
Good luck persuading anyone to join the AT mate, most people will moan about paying £29 a year, heard all the arguments on other forums in the past about what they do for the money etc etc, not seen it on here yet to be fair.
I doubt it will happen, sorry to be so pessimistic, but NOT only carp anglers every angler in my opinion should join.
In reply to Post #286
If you look at what the AT currently do, your remark about their 'agenda' being a carp anglers one shows a lack of understanding of what they try to do for ALL anglers
If you are so socially media aware, don't waste your time with fishing social media, they already know! get wandle1 or others to give you pics of the damage and use your farcebook \ twitter presence to send them to friends, tourists boards, bbc, celebs, etc etc
NO I am not a troll, but just trying to say we know in angling what is happening in certain ares of the country with otters but somehow the message needs to get out to the public, will they care tho??
Cheers
If you look at what the AT currently do, your remark about their 'agenda' being a carp anglers one shows a lack of understanding of what they try to do for ALL anglers
If you are so socially media aware, don't waste your time with fishing social media, they already know! get wandle1 or others to give you pics of the damage and use your farcebook \ twitter presence to send them to friends, tourists boards, bbc, celebs, etc etc
NO I am not a troll, but just trying to say we know in angling what is happening in certain ares of the country with otters but somehow the message needs to get out to the public, will they care tho??
Cheers
The trouble is, as i've mentioned before, at the moment, although large stretches of river, and many stillwaters have been devestated, many venues, and anglers, so far, have not.
Lots will go on websites and social media saying what should be done but, unless it directly effects them, that's about as far as their campaign will go.
We do need to be a strong and numerous body of people to be taken seriously. The EA, RSPB, Wildlife Trust, just to mention a few, all know what is going on with the otter but, seem to be **** scared of doing or suggesting anything?
These animals do need culling, and controlling, just like other animals that cause problems. There are other animals, causing a lot less problems than otter, that are under regular control.
Why can't all these groups come together as one?
Lots will go on websites and social media saying what should be done but, unless it directly effects them, that's about as far as their campaign will go.
We do need to be a strong and numerous body of people to be taken seriously. The EA, RSPB, Wildlife Trust, just to mention a few, all know what is going on with the otter but, seem to be **** scared of doing or suggesting anything?
These animals do need culling, and controlling, just like other animals that cause problems. There are other animals, causing a lot less problems than otter, that are under regular control.
Why can't all these groups come together as one?
In reply to Post #288
I agree they do good work for all anglers. I was just making the point that IF all carp anglers were members carp Angling would be their number 1 priority based on fact carp Angling is the most popular genre.
I would never accept that anglers can't be persuaded to join the AT for cost of a bag of pellets or a packet of hooks per month. Neither will I accept that the public can't be persuaded to understand the otter problem.
It won't be easy it will need a strategy and the best brains in Angling inc the best media stars to deliver our message. In order to do that we need one voice and the funds to do it. Birdwatchers have managed to get unilaterally behind the RSPB it's time anglers followed suit and stood up for Angling
I agree they do good work for all anglers. I was just making the point that IF all carp anglers were members carp Angling would be their number 1 priority based on fact carp Angling is the most popular genre.
I would never accept that anglers can't be persuaded to join the AT for cost of a bag of pellets or a packet of hooks per month. Neither will I accept that the public can't be persuaded to understand the otter problem.
It won't be easy it will need a strategy and the best brains in Angling inc the best media stars to deliver our message. In order to do that we need one voice and the funds to do it. Birdwatchers have managed to get unilaterally behind the RSPB it's time anglers followed suit and stood up for Angling
In reply to Post #290
You will learn mate.
Don't be so arrogant to suggest if 'all carp anglers' joined the AT they will make carp angling their priority lol , look on their website to see what they actually do.
You will learn mate.
Don't be so arrogant to suggest if 'all carp anglers' joined the AT they will make carp angling their priority lol , look on their website to see what they actually do.
Not sure how many on here remember John Wilson, for all his faults he did bring angling to a lot of people on tv.
Here is an article on bbc - can't get much more exposure at the time than that - about otters:
John Wilson - Otters
This is from 2013, so for anyone on here who calls me a troll about otters, think I have been more aware than a lot who have now jumped on the bandwagon.
However, the sad thing is, if a tv presenter with the 'power' he had in the media at the time had no effect on public opinion , there is no chance now.
Tight lines to all
Here is an article on bbc - can't get much more exposure at the time than that - about otters:
John Wilson - Otters
This is from 2013, so for anyone on here who calls me a troll about otters, think I have been more aware than a lot who have now jumped on the bandwagon.
However, the sad thing is, if a tv presenter with the 'power' he had in the media at the time had no effect on public opinion , there is no chance now.
Tight lines to all
In reply to Post #292
Well let's all put the carp gear on eBay now then !
This is old news I am a massive fan of John Wilson the mans a legend but this is 2018 and a new band of anglers are in the spotlight ie Jeremy Wade Ali Hamidi & social media means every angler has a voice
The point I originally made was the AT rhetoric towards otter predatation has changed for the better
I was merely stating that that for me was enough to warrant joining and the more people we can encourage to join the better
Well let's all put the carp gear on eBay now then !
This is old news I am a massive fan of John Wilson the mans a legend but this is 2018 and a new band of anglers are in the spotlight ie Jeremy Wade Ali Hamidi & social media means every angler has a voice
The point I originally made was the AT rhetoric towards otter predatation has changed for the better
I was merely stating that that for me was enough to warrant joining and the more people we can encourage to join the better
In reply to Post #293
No need to sell your carp gear mate. There will always be places to fish.
Think you missed the point, yes it was old news , but at the time he had a profile that went beyond anglers, and if no one - who are not anglers - took any notice then how is it going to happen now??
As for Ali Hamidi and the others in the monster carp fishing programs he is in on tv with, not a chance of non anglers even knowing who they are.
Jeremy Wade is a different case, river monsters is an entertainment program and very good too, but to go back to your statement about people joining the AT, it will not be happening trust - pardon the pun - me.
No need to sell your carp gear mate. There will always be places to fish.
Think you missed the point, yes it was old news , but at the time he had a profile that went beyond anglers, and if no one - who are not anglers - took any notice then how is it going to happen now??
As for Ali Hamidi and the others in the monster carp fishing programs he is in on tv with, not a chance of non anglers even knowing who they are.
Jeremy Wade is a different case, river monsters is an entertainment program and very good too, but to go back to your statement about people joining the AT, it will not be happening trust - pardon the pun - me.