In reply to Post #266
But is possible to do. So it's possible it has been done.
Basically what you're saying is, go prove it yourselves to show it's possible. Which is stupidity isn't it.
Just fyi my thoughts are not that it 100% has been done. Just that I really wouldn't be surprised if it has based on all the reactions from those accused.
But is possible to do. So it's possible it has been done.
Basically what you're saying is, go prove it yourselves to show it's possible. Which is stupidity isn't it.
Just fyi my thoughts are not that it 100% has been done. Just that I really wouldn't be surprised if it has based on all the reactions from those accused.
In reply to Post #266
So far you've still not answered #254 either. Which is very funny
So far you've still not answered #254 either. Which is very funny
In reply to Post #268
I have no idea what would happen, if you put the neat liquid into a lake and the fish absorbed it.
Although you purchase the liquid in tiny amounts (30ml at a time), because it's made to be used in injections, so I don't see how you could practically have a situation where the fish are absorbing it through their gills, it makes no sense.
I have no idea what would happen, if you put the neat liquid into a lake and the fish absorbed it.
Although you purchase the liquid in tiny amounts (30ml at a time), because it's made to be used in injections, so I don't see how you could practically have a situation where the fish are absorbing it through their gills, it makes no sense.
In reply to Post #269
The fact you don't understand physiology says it all. And the fact you admit you don't know but you're saying it's not possible is hilarious too.
Introduce liquid, it disperses in the water column as ethyl alcohol used as a carrier, fish swim through said area and absorb it during osmosis, as well as from any other part of their body with a blood supply. It then enters their system and has an affect.
It's all very simple really. Same concept of flavours and the other liquid ingredients used in fishing.
Whether you have to use much more than the 30ml vial or because it's concentrated it dilutes enough to not be too much of an environmental issue and induce full on spawning is anyone's guess, well some may actually know if it has been used.
The fact you don't understand physiology says it all. And the fact you admit you don't know but you're saying it's not possible is hilarious too.
Introduce liquid, it disperses in the water column as ethyl alcohol used as a carrier, fish swim through said area and absorb it during osmosis, as well as from any other part of their body with a blood supply. It then enters their system and has an affect.
It's all very simple really. Same concept of flavours and the other liquid ingredients used in fishing.
Whether you have to use much more than the 30ml vial or because it's concentrated it dilutes enough to not be too much of an environmental issue and induce full on spawning is anyone's guess, well some may actually know if it has been used.
Someone said earlier Ian Russel won't fish matches anymore because of under hand tactics........surely he could name these tactics???
In reply to Post #261
1. You've read every single paper on the subject? Or you've had a bit of a Google?
For the pest control industry it may be the most efficient or cost effective method to inject the substance into another fish. This does not mean that it is the only way that the substance can have an effect. As you said, we have no evidence.
2. I've never said that there are anglers using these substances. I have no idea if hormones have been used or if it is even possible to attract carp using them in a fishing situation. I don't have social media and have never heard of most of the people implicated.
You're missing the point. I'm just calling you out for presenting information as fact that you have no evidence for, while asking for evidence on something else. You're making yourself look like a bit of a wally.
1. You've read every single paper on the subject? Or you've had a bit of a Google?
For the pest control industry it may be the most efficient or cost effective method to inject the substance into another fish. This does not mean that it is the only way that the substance can have an effect. As you said, we have no evidence.
2. I've never said that there are anglers using these substances. I have no idea if hormones have been used or if it is even possible to attract carp using them in a fishing situation. I don't have social media and have never heard of most of the people implicated.
You're missing the point. I'm just calling you out for presenting information as fact that you have no evidence for, while asking for evidence on something else. You're making yourself look like a bit of a wally.
In reply to Post #270
The fact you don't understand physiology says it all. And the fact you admit you don't know but you're saying it's not possible is hilarious too.
Right.
But you don't know either, as far as I'm concerned - there's no evidence that it works, or that it's been tried.
It makes no sense that it would work, and if it did - everybody would be doing it, no way would it be kept under wraps.
The fact you don't understand physiology says it all. And the fact you admit you don't know but you're saying it's not possible is hilarious too.
Right.
But you don't know either, as far as I'm concerned - there's no evidence that it works, or that it's been tried.
It makes no sense that it would work, and if it did - everybody would be doing it, no way would it be kept under wraps.
In reply to Post #273
Why does it make no sense? The manufacturer warns it can be absorbed through skin. So it can be absorbed through fish skin. Or are they somehow exempt?
So you've actively admitting there's no evidence to say it works and theres no evidence to say it doesn't work. So you just don't know. So you've said a whole lot of nothing and proved nothing whilst doing so.
Why would everyone be doing it? It's a controlled veterinary drug which is by prescription only. Getting hold of it very difficult unless you have an in or know someone willing to risk a criminal offence by giving you it. Using it is for a different use than intended is an environmental crime so why wouldn't it be kept under complete and utter secrecy?
If anyone admits to using it they aren't bothered about losing their media image, they are worried about potential fines or jail time.
Why does it make no sense? The manufacturer warns it can be absorbed through skin. So it can be absorbed through fish skin. Or are they somehow exempt?
So you've actively admitting there's no evidence to say it works and theres no evidence to say it doesn't work. So you just don't know. So you've said a whole lot of nothing and proved nothing whilst doing so.
Why would everyone be doing it? It's a controlled veterinary drug which is by prescription only. Getting hold of it very difficult unless you have an in or know someone willing to risk a criminal offence by giving you it. Using it is for a different use than intended is an environmental crime so why wouldn't it be kept under complete and utter secrecy?
If anyone admits to using it they aren't bothered about losing their media image, they are worried about potential fines or jail time.
In reply to Post #272
You're missing the point. I'm just calling you out for presenting information as fact that you have no evidence for, while asking for evidence on something else.
It is a fact - that there's no evidence that using Prostglandalin directly with feed, or in the water is in any way attractive to carp.
It is a fact - that the only evidence of it being used sucessfully with fish - is as an injection/implant in carp to stimulate a female to produce reprodutive pheromones.
You're missing the point. I'm just calling you out for presenting information as fact that you have no evidence for, while asking for evidence on something else.
It is a fact - that there's no evidence that using Prostglandalin directly with feed, or in the water is in any way attractive to carp.
It is a fact - that the only evidence of it being used sucessfully with fish - is as an injection/implant in carp to stimulate a female to produce reprodutive pheromones.
In reply to Post #275
This is brain damage. I can't tell if you're on a wind up or just not the full ticket
This is basic stuff. In order for something to be accepted as fact it must be able to be tested and proven as such. What you are demonstrating is a lack of evidence to the contrary. These are not the same thing.
This is brain damage. I can't tell if you're on a wind up or just not the full ticket
This is basic stuff. In order for something to be accepted as fact it must be able to be tested and proven as such. What you are demonstrating is a lack of evidence to the contrary. These are not the same thing.
In reply to Post #276
Just to help untie your brain a little:
There's no evidence that using this substance directly as a feed additive, results in it being attractive to carp.
There is no evidence that it has been tested in such a way.
There is no mechanism or theory that would explain it working in such a way,
There is no evidence that it's been used by anglers to catch carp with rod/line/bait.
There IS evidence of it being used in the pest control industry, as a method of stimulating a carp via injection or implant, into producing specific reproductive hormones that attract other carp.
Just to help untie your brain a little:
There's no evidence that using this substance directly as a feed additive, results in it being attractive to carp.
There is no evidence that it has been tested in such a way.
There is no mechanism or theory that would explain it working in such a way,
There is no evidence that it's been used by anglers to catch carp with rod/line/bait.
There IS evidence of it being used in the pest control industry, as a method of stimulating a carp via injection or implant, into producing specific reproductive hormones that attract other carp.
In reply to Post #274
Why does it make no sense? The manufacturer warns it can be absorbed through skin. So it can be absorbed through fish skin. Or are they somehow exempt?
Because the substance in question (Prostglandalin) isn't an attractive reproductive hormone, it's a hormone that is used to trigger the female carp to produce a different set of chemicals (pheromones) which are attractive to carp.
The other problem is that if you read through the data for how this is used in pest control, it's not a simple case of just injecting a carp and putting it into a trap then netting the lake.
It's a very slow time consuming process, the lure fish (implanted females) need to be in the water for a long time (weeks), the nature of the water and other factors can have a serious effect - there are only certain times of the year (around spawning) when it actually works at all.
And last but not least - most of the time, the fish it attracts are sexually immature adolescent fish, it doesn't work with adult carp.
So this idea that someone is turning up at Linear - spombing some of this stuff into B2 and hauling 30 carp in 24 hours, it just doesn't work, doesn't make sense when you compare it to reality.
Why does it make no sense? The manufacturer warns it can be absorbed through skin. So it can be absorbed through fish skin. Or are they somehow exempt?
Because the substance in question (Prostglandalin) isn't an attractive reproductive hormone, it's a hormone that is used to trigger the female carp to produce a different set of chemicals (pheromones) which are attractive to carp.
The other problem is that if you read through the data for how this is used in pest control, it's not a simple case of just injecting a carp and putting it into a trap then netting the lake.
It's a very slow time consuming process, the lure fish (implanted females) need to be in the water for a long time (weeks), the nature of the water and other factors can have a serious effect - there are only certain times of the year (around spawning) when it actually works at all.
And last but not least - most of the time, the fish it attracts are sexually immature adolescent fish, it doesn't work with adult carp.
So this idea that someone is turning up at Linear - spombing some of this stuff into B2 and hauling 30 carp in 24 hours, it just doesn't work, doesn't make sense when you compare it to reality.
In reply to Post #278
But you don't actually know if it would work or not. So it might make little sense but you can't 100% say it wouldn't. Most things in science don't make sense until they're discovered.
What's to say the worms being used a carrier don't take it on and produce their pheromones which attract the fish to the area?
You do know people are entitled to their opinion and because you can't be 100% sure or show the evidence to prove it hasn't been used, that no matter how loud you shout, you can't force people to change their opinion right?
But you don't actually know if it would work or not. So it might make little sense but you can't 100% say it wouldn't. Most things in science don't make sense until they're discovered.
What's to say the worms being used a carrier don't take it on and produce their pheromones which attract the fish to the area?
You do know people are entitled to their opinion and because you can't be 100% sure or show the evidence to prove it hasn't been used, that no matter how loud you shout, you can't force people to change their opinion right?
In reply to Post #279
You do know people are entitled to their opinion and because you can't be 100% sure or show the evidence to prove it hasn't been used, that no matter how loud you shout, you can't force people to change their opinion right?
The problem is that these 'opinions' are messing up the lives of likely totally innocent people, ruining their reputations, on the basis of nonsensical unfounded allegations - which are almost certainly a product of sour grapes and jealousy.
Allegations which are being created and propagated by people who have no evidence, likely don't know what they're talking about - and worse of all, have no idea of the damage they're doing.
You do know people are entitled to their opinion and because you can't be 100% sure or show the evidence to prove it hasn't been used, that no matter how loud you shout, you can't force people to change their opinion right?
The problem is that these 'opinions' are messing up the lives of likely totally innocent people, ruining their reputations, on the basis of nonsensical unfounded allegations - which are almost certainly a product of sour grapes and jealousy.
Allegations which are being created and propagated by people who have no evidence, likely don't know what they're talking about - and worse of all, have no idea of the damage they're doing.
In reply to Post #280
But you have no idea if they're innocent. Only on the science you went looking for to disprove that it would work. But you didn't disprove it. Maybe get hold of some and try it yourself and see if it works? A tank tested environment. Just like the science you've read about. Come back and tell us the results. That's the only way you can claim it doesn't work in the way people are thinking it could.
No ones life has been ruined. All the ones that had accusations on them still have their sponsorships and earn money in the industry. They never bothered coming out instantly to disprove it, because when they did they made it worse by being quite obviously coy about something. If it is worms. Just come out and say it and show it and it all goes away doesn't it.
But you have no idea if they're innocent. Only on the science you went looking for to disprove that it would work. But you didn't disprove it. Maybe get hold of some and try it yourself and see if it works? A tank tested environment. Just like the science you've read about. Come back and tell us the results. That's the only way you can claim it doesn't work in the way people are thinking it could.
No ones life has been ruined. All the ones that had accusations on them still have their sponsorships and earn money in the industry. They never bothered coming out instantly to disprove it, because when they did they made it worse by being quite obviously coy about something. If it is worms. Just come out and say it and show it and it all goes away doesn't it.