In reply to Post #264
Most of it (in my opinion) they're basically saying how great it is that a top predator is back, gaining strength, and no evidence of any real destruction to other wildlife. Also a lot more, that does't tie in with all the reports of fish and other wildlife destruction, that's frequently reported.
Or are you reading something different to me?
Most of it (in my opinion) they're basically saying how great it is that a top predator is back, gaining strength, and no evidence of any real destruction to other wildlife. Also a lot more, that does't tie in with all the reports of fish and other wildlife destruction, that's frequently reported.
Or are you reading something different to me?
In reply to Post #265
There is no evidence, if you look at the number of applications for trapping then it can only suggest that there's not a big problem. If there was a big problem then NE would be inundated with applications. Of course we all know differently and there's a plethora of 'evidence' on social media but they're challenging people to go through the correct channels.
Instead of everyone moaning on fb and posting up photos of otters from other countries under the false belief that they're our own native otter, anglers & fishery managers need to be gathering evidence and compiling reports of lost earnings etc and submitting those. There's a system in place, it's just not being tested. Only when this happens will the 'evidence' become visible.... In my opinion.
There is no evidence, if you look at the number of applications for trapping then it can only suggest that there's not a big problem. If there was a big problem then NE would be inundated with applications. Of course we all know differently and there's a plethora of 'evidence' on social media but they're challenging people to go through the correct channels.
Instead of everyone moaning on fb and posting up photos of otters from other countries under the false belief that they're our own native otter, anglers & fishery managers need to be gathering evidence and compiling reports of lost earnings etc and submitting those. There's a system in place, it's just not being tested. Only when this happens will the 'evidence' become visible.... In my opinion.
In reply to Post #266
The lack of applications is because you can only apply for a license to trap when the fishery is already fenced and an Otter has got in.
The lack of applications is because you can only apply for a license to trap when the fishery is already fenced and an Otter has got in.
In reply to Post #267
That's not entirely true
That's not entirely true
In reply to Post #268
taken from the license application :
This licence may only be used at fisheries that are enclosed by fencing that meets the minimum
specification set out in Annex B. Where the fishery is fenced but the fencing does not meet the
standard in Annex B, Natural England must be consulted before any action is taken under this
licence.
taken from the license application :
This licence may only be used at fisheries that are enclosed by fencing that meets the minimum
specification set out in Annex B. Where the fishery is fenced but the fencing does not meet the
standard in Annex B, Natural England must be consulted before any action is taken under this
licence.
In reply to Post #269
But we're talking test cases, the process needs testing. Don't ask, don't get. I work for/with NE, they're not completely closed to applications from unfenced waters, you just need to build a comprehensive case and from what I understand that's not been done yet.
But we're talking test cases, the process needs testing. Don't ask, don't get. I work for/with NE, they're not completely closed to applications from unfenced waters, you just need to build a comprehensive case and from what I understand that's not been done yet.
In reply to Post #270
That would be a major step forward to be able to trap an unfenced water but the problem remains of where does the Otter get relocated too as at the moment it has to be released directly outside the fence.
That would be a major step forward to be able to trap an unfenced water but the problem remains of where does the Otter get relocated too as at the moment it has to be released directly outside the fence.
In reply to Post #268
The way i understand it Nick, is you can only apply for legal trapping, if the water is fenced/enclosed?
Because of all the red tape, by time permission is granted, it's often too late.
Many unfenced venues don't have the option, i'm not just talking about stillwaters, miles of river stretches are now baron of any fish, mainly, because of otter.
Most places, who have been wiped out, are hardly going to apply for trapping permission when they have nothing left?
So, a lot of those angry people, vent their anger on the net, and forums.
The way the government paint the picture, is everything's peachy, when they are only too aware of what's really going on.
Hopefully the other things that are happening to otters will keep the numbers down. If it's left to the government, we're all ****ed (in my opinion)
The way i understand it Nick, is you can only apply for legal trapping, if the water is fenced/enclosed?
Because of all the red tape, by time permission is granted, it's often too late.
Many unfenced venues don't have the option, i'm not just talking about stillwaters, miles of river stretches are now baron of any fish, mainly, because of otter.
Most places, who have been wiped out, are hardly going to apply for trapping permission when they have nothing left?
So, a lot of those angry people, vent their anger on the net, and forums.
The way the government paint the picture, is everything's peachy, when they are only too aware of what's really going on.
Hopefully the other things that are happening to otters will keep the numbers down. If it's left to the government, we're all ****ed (in my opinion)
In reply to Post #271
Agree
Agree
Interested to hear your views on this ramifications of this landmark case in which a gamekeeper was given the right to shoot protected BOP to protect livestock.
Makes very interesting reading and I certainly a (small) step in the right direction...
Full link...
http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/gamekeeper-finally-wins-licence-for-buzzard-control-as-high-court-overrules-natural-england-refusal-49505
Couple of extracts..
The Judicial Review at the High Court has quashed Natural England's refusal to grant him a licence to control buzzards, a battle that has been going on for four years.
Mr Waddell added: “This Judicial Review was never about changing the law – buzzards, although now very common, remain fully protected birds and the wildlife licensing system quite rightly has safeguards to ensure that there cannot be a ‘free-for-all' against them. Rather, the case was about seeking the court's view on whether the existing licensing system, available for the control of wild birds since 1981, was being fairly administered by Natural England. The court found that it was not. It is the right result, for individual justice and the countryside "
Makes very interesting reading and I certainly a (small) step in the right direction...
Full link...
http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/news/gamekeeper-finally-wins-licence-for-buzzard-control-as-high-court-overrules-natural-england-refusal-49505
Couple of extracts..
The Judicial Review at the High Court has quashed Natural England's refusal to grant him a licence to control buzzards, a battle that has been going on for four years.
Mr Waddell added: “This Judicial Review was never about changing the law – buzzards, although now very common, remain fully protected birds and the wildlife licensing system quite rightly has safeguards to ensure that there cannot be a ‘free-for-all' against them. Rather, the case was about seeking the court's view on whether the existing licensing system, available for the control of wild birds since 1981, was being fairly administered by Natural England. The court found that it was not. It is the right result, for individual justice and the countryside "
In reply to Post #274
It sets precedents that ensure Natural England must assess any application for licensed control objectively, based upon the facts of the application and not take account of public opinion or any value judgements of their staff over the relative "importance" of game birds or buzzards (or in the case of otters, otters or fish).
So relevant but the NE licence application process we went though to obtain the CL 36 trapping licence remains clear and thorough.
It sets precedents that ensure Natural England must assess any application for licensed control objectively, based upon the facts of the application and not take account of public opinion or any value judgements of their staff over the relative "importance" of game birds or buzzards (or in the case of otters, otters or fish).
So relevant but the NE licence application process we went though to obtain the CL 36 trapping licence remains clear and thorough.
In reply to Post #266
Myself and Skeff had a meeting in London with the head of licencing in NE re trapping and in little over a year we have had over 60 contacts for help and advice. That alone demonstrates a use of the CL36 ...... had that not been in place we would never have had that much contact so the fact that there have been few actual trapping applications submitted is a good thing. Trapping for us is a last resort if we fail to move the otter by other means so, actually its far more of a success than people give it credit for
Myself and Skeff had a meeting in London with the head of licencing in NE re trapping and in little over a year we have had over 60 contacts for help and advice. That alone demonstrates a use of the CL36 ...... had that not been in place we would never have had that much contact so the fact that there have been few actual trapping applications submitted is a good thing. Trapping for us is a last resort if we fail to move the otter by other means so, actually its far more of a success than people give it credit for
In reply to Post #276
Hello Dave,what do you mean by removing an otter by other means...?
Also what are your feelings and understanding of individuals with their own private agenda who keep otters as shall we say pets.and then put them into a previously otter free area,with no viable food sources other than local fisheries?
And how successful would a private prosecution be against a local otter releaser as or under the heading wildlife crime be..with much evidence to support it...
Plus,and I'm being upfront does the otter world understand the huge growing undercurrent of distrust and hatred towards rewilders and conservation people..?if they don't then they have surely misunderstood the angling fraternity..
Plus,as an aside,quite a few members of the non angling public are learning that the otter is not as cuddly as they perceive,especially now the damage to birds are being more widely recognized..
Down here in Cornwall the damage to water birds and carp angling is beyond repair now...at my last count it was over eighty plus waters that I have evidence of otter predation....it's ruined now...unless you have a fence..
Hello Dave,what do you mean by removing an otter by other means...?
Also what are your feelings and understanding of individuals with their own private agenda who keep otters as shall we say pets.and then put them into a previously otter free area,with no viable food sources other than local fisheries?
And how successful would a private prosecution be against a local otter releaser as or under the heading wildlife crime be..with much evidence to support it...
Plus,and I'm being upfront does the otter world understand the huge growing undercurrent of distrust and hatred towards rewilders and conservation people..?if they don't then they have surely misunderstood the angling fraternity..
Plus,as an aside,quite a few members of the non angling public are learning that the otter is not as cuddly as they perceive,especially now the damage to birds are being more widely recognized..
Down here in Cornwall the damage to water birds and carp angling is beyond repair now...at my last count it was over eighty plus waters that I have evidence of otter predation....it's ruined now...unless you have a fence..
In reply to Post #261
Now the Angling Trust have responded do you think all UK carp anglers should join the angling trust?
i am not a member but may now join following their statement about otters plus the work they are doing on behalf of carp anglers. Angling needs a single voice and whilst there are many smaller organisations doing great work anglers need to lobby in numbers which today isn't happening
For example twitter, the angling trust has 16k followers on twitter RSPB has nearly 300k
The AT posted following statement earlier this week
Angling Trust @AnglingTrust Feb 27
The @UKParliament has dismissed the recent petition for 'non-lethal' control of #otters. However, the @AnglingTrust is pressing @NaturalEngland for regulation of the release of rehabilitated otters: http://bit.ly/2ozGTPO
Now the Angling Trust have responded do you think all UK carp anglers should join the angling trust?
i am not a member but may now join following their statement about otters plus the work they are doing on behalf of carp anglers. Angling needs a single voice and whilst there are many smaller organisations doing great work anglers need to lobby in numbers which today isn't happening
For example twitter, the angling trust has 16k followers on twitter RSPB has nearly 300k
The AT posted following statement earlier this week
Angling Trust @AnglingTrust Feb 27
The @UKParliament has dismissed the recent petition for 'non-lethal' control of #otters. However, the @AnglingTrust is pressing @NaturalEngland for regulation of the release of rehabilitated otters: http://bit.ly/2ozGTPO
In reply to Post #278
A single voice is needed, once an angling trust member joins he/she has the power to push for more answers.
Bitching on facebook and all the silly predation groups that are springing up are nothing but a platform for un educated people to moan about everything and do nothing to help
A single voice is needed, once an angling trust member joins he/she has the power to push for more answers.
Bitching on facebook and all the silly predation groups that are springing up are nothing but a platform for un educated people to moan about everything and do nothing to help