I know John Baker has spoken about this loads as have others. He advocates very little flavour in hookbaits where others use vastly more. 0.2ml or 0.5ml just doesn't seem enough for me and I always use several times more with success. Although I have caught with very little flavour too following his instructions.
So, do you stick to John's guides?
So, do you stick to John's guides?
In reply to Post #1
I would, as a rule, it would be easy for him to say load 'em up and buy more when you run out , but he doesn't. However, there's always scope for experimentation, try testing different flavours PH level fo instance.
I would, as a rule, it would be easy for him to say load 'em up and buy more when you run out , but he doesn't. However, there's always scope for experimentation, try testing different flavours PH level fo instance.
In reply to Post #2
I have no experience of dosage rates with JB flavours. We buy in our flavours worldwide. None of the best stuff comes from the UK anymore in my opinion. We only buy direct from the people who actually manufacture the flavours themselves. We don't pay any middleman double for the same product. Stuff goes into the products we sell. So it's not for resale.
The flavours used within the carp fishing industry are very cheap compared to expensive human chain nature identical products, even purchased direct. They all have ones that are good, and all have ones that are terrible. Even my old friend Bob Cambell had some real shockers I would regard as a repellant. Catchit are good too. JB stuff gets a good rep.
We use some stuff that ranges from £140 to near £250 a litre direct from source in bulk. Compare that to a standard carp bait flavour of around £20 - £30 per litre. If I was to rebottle that sort of stuff under our name and resell it, we would need to at least double that to make the profits. £500 per litre to you. Likely £100 or more for 100ml without stuff being watered down.
That's expensive. There are so many fruits around the world that we just don't see or hear of here. One is Acai in Brazil. A member of the same family of fruits as plum. If I gave you a top of the line nature identical Acai flavour to whiff, you would swear blind it was plum. Once you step out of our fishing realm, your eyes will be opened.
I have no experience of dosage rates with JB flavours. We buy in our flavours worldwide. None of the best stuff comes from the UK anymore in my opinion. We only buy direct from the people who actually manufacture the flavours themselves. We don't pay any middleman double for the same product. Stuff goes into the products we sell. So it's not for resale.
The flavours used within the carp fishing industry are very cheap compared to expensive human chain nature identical products, even purchased direct. They all have ones that are good, and all have ones that are terrible. Even my old friend Bob Cambell had some real shockers I would regard as a repellant. Catchit are good too. JB stuff gets a good rep.
We use some stuff that ranges from £140 to near £250 a litre direct from source in bulk. Compare that to a standard carp bait flavour of around £20 - £30 per litre. If I was to rebottle that sort of stuff under our name and resell it, we would need to at least double that to make the profits. £500 per litre to you. Likely £100 or more for 100ml without stuff being watered down.
That's expensive. There are so many fruits around the world that we just don't see or hear of here. One is Acai in Brazil. A member of the same family of fruits as plum. If I gave you a top of the line nature identical Acai flavour to whiff, you would swear blind it was plum. Once you step out of our fishing realm, your eyes will be opened.
In reply to Post #3
Very interesting. 👍🏻
Yes, makes total sense. However, I would know where to start to look for international flavourist! I also don't make enough quantity to buy that amount.
I agree and just stick to catchit and John's.
Very interesting. 👍🏻
Yes, makes total sense. However, I would know where to start to look for international flavourist! I also don't make enough quantity to buy that amount.
I agree and just stick to catchit and John's.
In reply to Post #1
Yes, it would. I don't load them up, but if you put 1ml in and his rate is 0.2 then obviously that's x5 his dosage but not a huge amount.
I'm not new to making bait, I was just interested if others were rigidly sticking to recommend amounts.
Yes, it would. I don't load them up, but if you put 1ml in and his rate is 0.2 then obviously that's x5 his dosage but not a huge amount.
I'm not new to making bait, I was just interested if others were rigidly sticking to recommend amounts.
In reply to Post #1
As Paul say's in post 2, experimentation will help. The fish will tell you everything you need to know, probably John's advice is a shortcut to that.
No idea what relevance the other post has.
As Paul say's in post 2, experimentation will help. The fish will tell you everything you need to know, probably John's advice is a shortcut to that.
No idea what relevance the other post has.
In reply to Post #6
Quote..... No idea what relevance the other post has.
Alright Winkle.
John does not make his flavours does he as far as I know? He's not a flavour producer as in the person who actually synthesises the flavours. I did not really want to spell that out. But that would be why I have no clue about dosage rates as per post. Never used them personally.
Things said to justify being twice or three times the price of a source producer may fool people like you, but people with a bit more knowledge would understand. That's why you don't I guess. If you are making bait at home, it hardly matters paying more for quality stuff well sourced. In a business equation that's not the case though.
Don't try to make this about silliness Winkle. There's some very good information in that post if you look past your hard on for moi. Did you miss me?
Quote..... No idea what relevance the other post has.
Alright Winkle.
John does not make his flavours does he as far as I know? He's not a flavour producer as in the person who actually synthesises the flavours. I did not really want to spell that out. But that would be why I have no clue about dosage rates as per post. Never used them personally.
Things said to justify being twice or three times the price of a source producer may fool people like you, but people with a bit more knowledge would understand. That's why you don't I guess. If you are making bait at home, it hardly matters paying more for quality stuff well sourced. In a business equation that's not the case though.
Don't try to make this about silliness Winkle. There's some very good information in that post if you look past your hard on for moi. Did you miss me?
In reply to Post #4
Capella are a USA company. You can buy some of their products from wholesalers over here who purchase in quantity and rebottle, sell onto you in smaller quantity. Look at vape wholesalers. Since the advent of vapes a lot of companies are now importing flavours into the UK for vape connoisseurs to make their own blends.
The only problem with that scenario is trust. You have to trust that the person doing the rebottling is giving you 100% the real mc coy. It's very simple to water expensive flavours down slightly. You would not know if it was cheap banana flavour and not real mc coy Capella either.
That's why I would only buy from source, or other trusted source's. That's why you might be better sticking with some one like JB. Because he has a great rep and clearly can be trusted by carp anglers.
But Capella make excellent flavours.
Capella are a USA company. You can buy some of their products from wholesalers over here who purchase in quantity and rebottle, sell onto you in smaller quantity. Look at vape wholesalers. Since the advent of vapes a lot of companies are now importing flavours into the UK for vape connoisseurs to make their own blends.
The only problem with that scenario is trust. You have to trust that the person doing the rebottling is giving you 100% the real mc coy. It's very simple to water expensive flavours down slightly. You would not know if it was cheap banana flavour and not real mc coy Capella either.
That's why I would only buy from source, or other trusted source's. That's why you might be better sticking with some one like JB. Because he has a great rep and clearly can be trusted by carp anglers.
But Capella make excellent flavours.
In reply to Post #8
Cheers... I'll look in to that. 👍🏻
Cheers... I'll look in to that. 👍🏻
In reply to Post #9
You're welcome.
I get to see them first hand when in Brazil where they are used a lot. They make loads of different flavours. High quality.
Check out Capella Flavors Inc online, although you will not be able to purchase from there without an account. You can see what they do.
https://www.capellaflavors.com/company
https://innovationsoftheworld.com/capella-flavors/
You're welcome.
I get to see them first hand when in Brazil where they are used a lot. They make loads of different flavours. High quality.
Check out Capella Flavors Inc online, although you will not be able to purchase from there without an account. You can see what they do.
https://www.capellaflavors.com/company
https://innovationsoftheworld.com/capella-flavors/
I've used JB's flavours for years at his recommended dosages. I doubt that there is anyone else in the world that has more experience and knowledge than JB regarding flavours in carp bait. Not the cheapest but realistically a 100ml bottle would last for a looong time for the average home roller.
JB made me a custom blend years ago and I pretty much use it exclusively.
The only other flavours I have used in the past 10+ years are a couple from Sam Barley - excellent but seriously overpriced! Used for home made winter hook baits.
Having said all that it's rare that I don't have a Specialised Hookbait cast out........
JB made me a custom blend years ago and I pretty much use it exclusively.
The only other flavours I have used in the past 10+ years are a couple from Sam Barley - excellent but seriously overpriced! Used for home made winter hook baits.
Having said all that it's rare that I don't have a Specialised Hookbait cast out........
In reply to Post #10
Jesus - Energy Drink flavour! I feel like I've put on 10kgs just by looking at that flavour list! Got to love our healthy eating American cousins..........
Jesus - Energy Drink flavour! I feel like I've put on 10kgs just by looking at that flavour list! Got to love our healthy eating American cousins..........
Agreed on Capella in terms of vaping flavours. I used to them when mixing my own vape juice. In the vape world they are regarded as one of the better quality flavours. In terms of sourcing, there are a fair few online vape stores that sell it and as low as 10ml bottles.
In reply to Post #13
That's what they get used for over here. Vaping. If you have a read of what they were started for, what their core business is in the US, it's food and drink flavourings. That's why I came into contact with them in the first place in Brazil, through a high end wedding and birthday cake producer.
There's a big world out there. Some of the best flavour houses are in Eastern Europe now.
I mentioned Capella for you lot, because it's a very high quality flavouring that you can get hold of here, without any account. You just have to find a vape wholesaler that you can rely on to give you the 100% real mc coy every single time.
If you look at all the low end flavour sellers on eBay for example. They are buying from someone like Capella and rebottling, watering it down vastly in some cases and selling it on under their own business name. So you do have to be very wary. Stuff that ends up in the fishing industry will often be out of date stuff from the human chain.
Get it from a reputable licensed vape seller with a great turnover. Or just stick to someone like JB who is doing all that work for you. Or Catchit Labs, who actually synthesize great value flavourings for the carp industry themselves. There's a big world outside of the fishing industry though if you want to experiment for yourself.
That's what they get used for over here. Vaping. If you have a read of what they were started for, what their core business is in the US, it's food and drink flavourings. That's why I came into contact with them in the first place in Brazil, through a high end wedding and birthday cake producer.
There's a big world out there. Some of the best flavour houses are in Eastern Europe now.
I mentioned Capella for you lot, because it's a very high quality flavouring that you can get hold of here, without any account. You just have to find a vape wholesaler that you can rely on to give you the 100% real mc coy every single time.
If you look at all the low end flavour sellers on eBay for example. They are buying from someone like Capella and rebottling, watering it down vastly in some cases and selling it on under their own business name. So you do have to be very wary. Stuff that ends up in the fishing industry will often be out of date stuff from the human chain.
Get it from a reputable licensed vape seller with a great turnover. Or just stick to someone like JB who is doing all that work for you. Or Catchit Labs, who actually synthesize great value flavourings for the carp industry themselves. There's a big world outside of the fishing industry though if you want to experiment for yourself.
In reply to Post #10
👍🏻
👍🏻