Hi all. I'm I'm into making my own hydros and now thinking of doing a wheat gluten one. My thinking is that with protein circa 75% and glutamate quite prominent the ffaa profile would be impressive and cheap but I've not come across much info so wondering is it worth it?
In reply to Post #1
Hydro wheat seems to work.
What enzymes are you planning to use?
Hydro wheat seems to work.
What enzymes are you planning to use?
In reply to Post #2
That's true regarding wheat hydro... I'm using an enzyme mix of papain, bromelain and pepsin with a pH adjustment when it's partially hydrolised.
That's true regarding wheat hydro... I'm using an enzyme mix of papain, bromelain and pepsin with a pH adjustment when it's partially hydrolised.
In reply to Post #3
I am by no means an expert but testing both in nature and in the t**k says every high protein ingredient benefit from a bit of protease.
I am by no means an expert but testing both in nature and in the t**k says every high protein ingredient benefit from a bit of protease.
In reply to Post #4
Bromelain, papain and pepsin are all from the protease group but they all do a "different job"... Some of the protein chains in gluten are pretty tough to digest but with the addition of pepsin and a pH shift towards acid with the correct temp it can be achieved.. In theory this should cleave the glutamate and leave it as a very good carp attractor in its own right. Edit.. In this instance I do see tank testing as a good testing ground, easy to see what's a repellent or acceptible
Bromelain, papain and pepsin are all from the protease group but they all do a "different job"... Some of the protein chains in gluten are pretty tough to digest but with the addition of pepsin and a pH shift towards acid with the correct temp it can be achieved.. In theory this should cleave the glutamate and leave it as a very good carp attractor in its own right. Edit.. In this instance I do see tank testing as a good testing ground, easy to see what's a repellent or acceptible
In reply to Post #5
That look valid to me.
If too much acid is added you seem to get palatability issues so worth testing that.
No idea if it helps neutralizing it or if the salts formed will affect it too.
That look valid to me.
If too much acid is added you seem to get palatability issues so worth testing that.
No idea if it helps neutralizing it or if the salts formed will affect it too.
In reply to Post #6
Sorry for the delay, just got back online... I'm using a teaspoon of citric per 300ml of liquid with success but not sure if you'd consider that excessive in terms of palatability?
Sorry for the delay, just got back online... I'm using a teaspoon of citric per 300ml of liquid with success but not sure if you'd consider that excessive in terms of palatability?
In reply to Post #7
On its own in an agar pellet it would probably be a bit too much for best effect (guessing a teaspoon is 5 grams) but in a mixed product I doubt it should be any problem.
If you get over 10-15 gram citric total in a finished product they can be a little skeptic in the tank, but in the real world I guess such a soluble product will wash out quick (guessing here)
On its own in an agar pellet it would probably be a bit too much for best effect (guessing a teaspoon is 5 grams) but in a mixed product I doubt it should be any problem.
If you get over 10-15 gram citric total in a finished product they can be a little skeptic in the tank, but in the real world I guess such a soluble product will wash out quick (guessing here)
In reply to Post #8
Great info, thanks. The amount of acid in a finished bait must be pretty low and as you said solubility plays a part... I'll persevere with this and perhaps mix the gluten hydro with a liver to broaden the ffaa spectrum.. It's at times like this when a tank can indeed be helpful..
Great info, thanks. The amount of acid in a finished bait must be pretty low and as you said solubility plays a part... I'll persevere with this and perhaps mix the gluten hydro with a liver to broaden the ffaa spectrum.. It's at times like this when a tank can indeed be helpful..
In reply to Post #9
Do you do the liver yourself too?
Do you do the liver yourself too?
In reply to Post #10
Yes mate, I have a nice beef liver hydro which I prefer to the pork or chicken
Yes mate, I have a nice beef liver hydro which I prefer to the pork or chicken
In reply to Post #11
Very nice. Must test myself.
I see a lot of people prefer beef over others, but never looked in to it. What do you base the choice on?
Very nice. Must test myself.
I see a lot of people prefer beef over others, but never looked in to it. What do you base the choice on?
In reply to Post #12
Quite frankly, it's based on taste!! With beef at a lower overall protein content over pork and chicken it loses out on ffaa but imo more than make up for it in terms of "taste". I'm also into researching certain volatiles in baits and looking at links between these and taste.. Malliards reaction is a biggie in terms of creating taste with beef ingredients which again imo carp have a receptor for these volatiles..
Quite frankly, it's based on taste!! With beef at a lower overall protein content over pork and chicken it loses out on ffaa but imo more than make up for it in terms of "taste". I'm also into researching certain volatiles in baits and looking at links between these and taste.. Malliards reaction is a biggie in terms of creating taste with beef ingredients which again imo carp have a receptor for these volatiles..
In reply to Post #13
Interesting. Taste is very important and underrated imo.
Lot of Maillard reaction end products represented in flavours.
Interesting. Taste is very important and underrated imo.
Lot of Maillard reaction end products represented in flavours.
In reply to Post #11
I bet the flies are an absolute nightmare when making that.
May i ask if you use liquidised Beef liver or dehydrated beef liver powder when doing your hydro's?
Thanks.
I bet the flies are an absolute nightmare when making that.
May i ask if you use liquidised Beef liver or dehydrated beef liver powder when doing your hydro's?
Thanks.