Ive been trying to find a vitalin alternative for groundbait and I came across a dog food called CSJ champ adult which has some good ingredients like maize and salmon oils in but it has cupric sulphate pentahydrate at 27 mg/kg which I believe to be copper. Is this too high a level of copper for carp?
In reply to Post #1
Why dont you just use vitalin to save any risk, and to use a known decent bait?
After a quick look, I think that stuff will float too
Why dont you just use vitalin to save any risk, and to use a known decent bait?
After a quick look, I think that stuff will float too
In reply to Post #2
I probably will, I was just seeing what else was out there for cheaper. It looks like vitalin is cheaper actually. I am still curious about the copper though as all dog foods including vitalin seem to contain it in varying degrees
I probably will, I was just seeing what else was out there for cheaper. It looks like vitalin is cheaper actually. I am still curious about the copper though as all dog foods including vitalin seem to contain it in varying degrees
In reply to Post #2
is vitalin original the best. Is it in kibble form or muesli?
is vitalin original the best. Is it in kibble form or muesli?
In reply to Post #3
Most dog food floats so just remember that. You really wont get much better than vitalin Tbh and it's so cheap it's not worth the effort trying imo
Yes original, it's a muesli mix. Kibbles usually float
Most dog food floats so just remember that. You really wont get much better than vitalin Tbh and it's so cheap it's not worth the effort trying imo
Yes original, it's a muesli mix. Kibbles usually float
Don't take the risk, copper is very toxic to fish, more so than for mammals.
Cupric sulphate is copper sulphate and contains 25% copper if you are going to look into the numbers.
Cupric sulphate is copper sulphate and contains 25% copper if you are going to look into the numbers.
In reply to Post #6
If I mix vitalin and goat mix will I be able to ball it up to fire in a catapult? I soaked and boiled goat mix but it didn't ball up so I had to add flour.
If I mix vitalin and goat mix will I be able to ball it up to fire in a catapult? I soaked and boiled goat mix but it didn't ball up so I had to add flour.
In reply to Post #8
Vitalin is very sticky if mixed correctly and will ball up brilliantly. Just make sure it's not too wet or it loses the stickyness. You can add whatever into it and again as long as it's not too wet it will ball up
Vitalin is very sticky if mixed correctly and will ball up brilliantly. Just make sure it's not too wet or it loses the stickyness. You can add whatever into it and again as long as it's not too wet it will ball up
In reply to Post #9
In terms of preparation, do I need to soak vitalin for 24 hours and boil it for 30 mins like other particles. Or is it fine to just soak it in warm water for 30 mins?
In terms of preparation, do I need to soak vitalin for 24 hours and boil it for 30 mins like other particles. Or is it fine to just soak it in warm water for 30 mins?
In reply to Post #10
Just soak, no boiling at all required
Just soak, no boiling at all required
In reply to Post #11
When I lived down south I had 3 sacks of vitamin in my garage I think they were 11kilo bags for £15,ideal for prebaiting the river itchen as when mixed and items added to it it sunk quick,I use to make them up and freeze a few balls of ground bait and take them to river itchen on a morning before work and put them in took ages to break down but it was all there slowly breaking down during my time at work
When I lived down south I had 3 sacks of vitamin in my garage I think they were 11kilo bags for £15,ideal for prebaiting the river itchen as when mixed and items added to it it sunk quick,I use to make them up and freeze a few balls of ground bait and take them to river itchen on a morning before work and put them in took ages to break down but it was all there slowly breaking down during my time at work
In reply to Post #12
Did you just soak yours for 30 mins
Did you just soak yours for 30 mins
In reply to Post #11
Is a 30 min soak adequate?
Is a 30 min soak adequate?
In reply to Post #14
Yes
Yes
LOL, just seen this topic straight after posting this in another topic....seems better to post it here as the title of this topic is more relevant 
That old chestnut again, I have found no evidence that trace levels of copper harm/kill carp.Some well known branded 'carp' pellets have tens of mg/kg copper added (probably in the form of copper sulfate). Some whey products and fishmeals have up to 85mg/kg copper content (some of our fishmeal boilies we use must be full of the stuff if we had them analysed).
Carp need 3-5mg/kg of diet of trace copper. They can have a lot more (many hundreds of mg/kg) before it affects them in any bad way. Less affects them just as much but in different ways. Other things are just as dangerous if you look too closely such as zinc, iron, calcium etc.
More details are in 'Trace minerals in fish nutrition Takeshi Watanabe' but the above is a VERY brief summary to just give some facts that do not back up the myth that 'copper is harmful to fish'
That old chestnut again, I have found no evidence that trace levels of copper harm/kill carp.Some well known branded 'carp' pellets have tens of mg/kg copper added (probably in the form of copper sulfate). Some whey products and fishmeals have up to 85mg/kg copper content (some of our fishmeal boilies we use must be full of the stuff if we had them analysed).
Carp need 3-5mg/kg of diet of trace copper. They can have a lot more (many hundreds of mg/kg) before it affects them in any bad way. Less affects them just as much but in different ways. Other things are just as dangerous if you look too closely such as zinc, iron, calcium etc.
More details are in 'Trace minerals in fish nutrition Takeshi Watanabe' but the above is a VERY brief summary to just give some facts that do not back up the myth that 'copper is harmful to fish'