Genuinely lost on this one..
Say you had 20 individual carp pictures from a lake over say 4 years, with 5 fish consistently re appearing as repeat captures over that period.. what would you say is this estimated stock of the lake ( single figures in acres )...? Minimal fishing time say 40 sessions ranging from 15 short evenings to maybe 25 overnighters
Would you say you've caught them all...
There could be the odd surprise left..
Other anglers have rarely produced a piccy of a fish I can't account for from my album in that time, although it has happened so I "know" I havent got them all....
Any estimates or logical guesses etc..
Say you had 20 individual carp pictures from a lake over say 4 years, with 5 fish consistently re appearing as repeat captures over that period.. what would you say is this estimated stock of the lake ( single figures in acres )...? Minimal fishing time say 40 sessions ranging from 15 short evenings to maybe 25 overnighters
Would you say you've caught them all...
There could be the odd surprise left..
Other anglers have rarely produced a piccy of a fish I can't account for from my album in that time, although it has happened so I "know" I havent got them all....
Any estimates or logical guesses etc..
In reply to Post #1
Have you had the uncaught big common yet
Have you had the uncaught big common yet
In reply to Post #1
Sorry to say, but most of them do get caught. I have yet to fish for an uncatchable carp, but I have seen many fish get away with it thanks to their muggy mates!
Sorry to say, but most of them do get caught. I have yet to fish for an uncatchable carp, but I have seen many fish get away with it thanks to their muggy mates!
In reply to Post #2
So funny You Said that... As there is a bigger common in this lake I definitely havent caught
So funny You Said that... As there is a bigger common in this lake I definitely havent caught
In reply to Post #4
Oh here we go ...
But have you tried the magic twig
Oh here we go ...
But have you tried the magic twig
In reply to Post #1
I think it was Tim Paisley who said a third of the stock get caught regularly, a third occasionally. and a third never get caught. Don't think he's far off with that statement myself.
I think it was Tim Paisley who said a third of the stock get caught regularly, a third occasionally. and a third never get caught. Don't think he's far off with that statement myself.
In reply to Post #6
Could be at a rough guess 15 to 20 fish.
I personally base a lake stock ( UNKNOWN OR KNOWN ) on these rough figures.
It is easier when anglers have factual evidence of photo albums and you share what you have caught between you all.
Some fish eat loads of anglers bait, boiles, particle, maggots, floaters, other rarely trip up, some eat naturals, or are fry eaters, some only slip up on zigs ( mid layer feeders )
The fun is not knowing, or being proved wrong at spawning times, or those first really warm days of spring and early summer when they hang out in numbers.
Could be at a rough guess 15 to 20 fish.
I personally base a lake stock ( UNKNOWN OR KNOWN ) on these rough figures.
It is easier when anglers have factual evidence of photo albums and you share what you have caught between you all.
Some fish eat loads of anglers bait, boiles, particle, maggots, floaters, other rarely trip up, some eat naturals, or are fry eaters, some only slip up on zigs ( mid layer feeders )
The fun is not knowing, or being proved wrong at spawning times, or those first really warm days of spring and early summer when they hang out in numbers.
In reply to Post #6
Never agreed with that and thats based on seeing lakes drained and catch reports over a 13 year period on a lake stocked from scratch.
10% of the known catches ref fish uncaught in this case thats 2 with a magin of error again 10%.
Very few carp make it to any size via spawning too, so id say to the op max 25/26 fish.
Never agreed with that and thats based on seeing lakes drained and catch reports over a 13 year period on a lake stocked from scratch.
10% of the known catches ref fish uncaught in this case thats 2 with a magin of error again 10%.
Very few carp make it to any size via spawning too, so id say to the op max 25/26 fish.
In reply to Post #8
There are ways to attempt this in Fisheries science with stats that look at recapture analysis. Having been down this route on several waters, I'm inclined to agree with Teddybare and say that you are probably looking at 20% maximum extra, which puts you at 24 fish.
There are ways to attempt this in Fisheries science with stats that look at recapture analysis. Having been down this route on several waters, I'm inclined to agree with Teddybare and say that you are probably looking at 20% maximum extra, which puts you at 24 fish.
In reply to Post #9
This is a great question and has got me thinking about a lake i fish when not on the canals,smallish lake around 2 acres few snaggy/overgrown islands but really shallow up other end (like a 1' deep)and loses loads of water in summer but..............there's a few carp in there they breed as I've caught a few smaller ones and hear people catch loads on maggots and feeder/float but there's herons on there so don't know how many fry/small carp survive.
I've had since I moved back(9.5 years)around 15 plus fish all commons nothing else recently in last few years I've had 3 20's out so they are getting bigger,last 2 years I've had 18,18.5,21,23 & 24 the stock is surprising me every time I fish there,as you can only fish 4/5 swims as it's that overgrown for a public lake.
I'm pretty certain I've had repeat captures for definite,I have been told as well that there's a decent mirror in there(20 plus) plus 2 tench(I caught one last trip) plus a big grass carp,so this lake is definitely full of surprises and I'm there next week to try my luck again,I would like a mirror from there but when I'm having fish like that on my last session(4 & lost one including 2 x 20's)the unknown is certainly driving me back to find out more as I think it will throw up another decent fish or 2.
Ps
I also saw a picture of a 25 plus mirror that was supposed to have come out of there a while back but apparently it's dead/stolen but the picture taken was at night and anyone can pull a fish up on phone and say I had this from here so who knows?
This is a great question and has got me thinking about a lake i fish when not on the canals,smallish lake around 2 acres few snaggy/overgrown islands but really shallow up other end (like a 1' deep)and loses loads of water in summer but..............there's a few carp in there they breed as I've caught a few smaller ones and hear people catch loads on maggots and feeder/float but there's herons on there so don't know how many fry/small carp survive.
I've had since I moved back(9.5 years)around 15 plus fish all commons nothing else recently in last few years I've had 3 20's out so they are getting bigger,last 2 years I've had 18,18.5,21,23 & 24 the stock is surprising me every time I fish there,as you can only fish 4/5 swims as it's that overgrown for a public lake.
I'm pretty certain I've had repeat captures for definite,I have been told as well that there's a decent mirror in there(20 plus) plus 2 tench(I caught one last trip) plus a big grass carp,so this lake is definitely full of surprises and I'm there next week to try my luck again,I would like a mirror from there but when I'm having fish like that on my last session(4 & lost one including 2 x 20's)the unknown is certainly driving me back to find out more as I think it will throw up another decent fish or 2.
Ps
I also saw a picture of a 25 plus mirror that was supposed to have come out of there a while back but apparently it's dead/stolen but the picture taken was at night and anyone can pull a fish up on phone and say I had this from here so who knows?
In reply to Post #1
Angling pressure and whether they need bait or not is the key for me. Some fish can go uncaught for quite a while and some hardly ever come out, some are bait eaters aka “mugs”the more frequent visitors
Best tip from me is get a good vantage point where the spawning takes place and you will get a very good idea of exactly what is in there, or same as, looking all the time
Based on what you are saying they may only be a few remaining, is it an old water that is neglected or not stocked?
Angling pressure and whether they need bait or not is the key for me. Some fish can go uncaught for quite a while and some hardly ever come out, some are bait eaters aka “mugs”the more frequent visitors
Best tip from me is get a good vantage point where the spawning takes place and you will get a very good idea of exactly what is in there, or same as, looking all the time
Based on what you are saying they may only be a few remaining, is it an old water that is neglected or not stocked?
In reply to Post #11
Not officially stocked, it's in a strange geographic location ( 2 farmers co own it ), but there are 3/4 public access swims ( that they have nothing to do with ) so all sorts could be put in fish wise..there was original stock from 80s but anything in there know is either commons I presume have grown on in there or stuff people have thrown in.
My estimate is 25 fish. Previously I have been somewhere between 20 and 40 but ultimately I think 40 is way out there.. this autumn will tell... If I do a few more nights and blank or catch repeats without the big unknown one showing up then I will know for certain.
Not officially stocked, it's in a strange geographic location ( 2 farmers co own it ), but there are 3/4 public access swims ( that they have nothing to do with ) so all sorts could be put in fish wise..there was original stock from 80s but anything in there know is either commons I presume have grown on in there or stuff people have thrown in.
My estimate is 25 fish. Previously I have been somewhere between 20 and 40 but ultimately I think 40 is way out there.. this autumn will tell... If I do a few more nights and blank or catch repeats without the big unknown one showing up then I will know for certain.
In reply to Post #12
Wouldn't it be best to have a look round on a day like this as most of the stock will be out in the sun and you can have a better estimate of what's in there,also good luck mate sounds exciting
Wouldn't it be best to have a look round on a day like this as most of the stock will be out in the sun and you can have a better estimate of what's in there,also good luck mate sounds exciting
I caught the "big common" out of the lake that I fish in 2015 and was the largest common in the lake at the time, the next time it was reportedly caught again was four years later after it was presumed to have died or gone "missing" by foul means or Otter etc. But in that time, other commons had grown bigger. But their was and still is anglers who were and are determined to catch it to this day, and never have and still trying to this day, probably mainly as it has very large scales for a common so it is quiet unique. But it still comes out occasionally but to the despair of those who are targeting it and don't get it.
In the adjoining syndicate lake, a large "Twenty" was caught that no one had ever seen before and was presumed to have been from an original stocking many years before the syndicate stocked it and starting fishing it, it had managed to elude capture for about 9 years.
But, their is always the hidden fact that people may have caught them and never let on, or in the case of the "Big Common", not known that it was and also never let on.
And then their is the case that they may not have been "Banked" but lost and no way of knowing what you lost.
So in reality, it can be hard to determine what is in a lake.
In the adjoining syndicate lake, a large "Twenty" was caught that no one had ever seen before and was presumed to have been from an original stocking many years before the syndicate stocked it and starting fishing it, it had managed to elude capture for about 9 years.
But, their is always the hidden fact that people may have caught them and never let on, or in the case of the "Big Common", not known that it was and also never let on.
And then their is the case that they may not have been "Banked" but lost and no way of knowing what you lost.
So in reality, it can be hard to determine what is in a lake.
In reply to Post #14
I was on the canal by me in 2019 and it's roughly 14 miles between locks and I remember a guy saying when I was down there that he saw a big common on the stretch I was on between bridges,well end of may I caught it at 32lb and it's one of 3 30's in there 2 mirrors and a common not seen any since since it's a stretch that doesn't have clear water to watch them like the other stretches
I was on the canal by me in 2019 and it's roughly 14 miles between locks and I remember a guy saying when I was down there that he saw a big common on the stretch I was on between bridges,well end of may I caught it at 32lb and it's one of 3 30's in there 2 mirrors and a common not seen any since since it's a stretch that doesn't have clear water to watch them like the other stretches
In reply to Post #13
It's almost a perfect circle with no climbable trees. So there are no definite Vantage points to spot fish...I call it the "dark pit" for that reason.... It's not dark bul it is in the margins... You see carp cruising in pods of maybe 3 at a time which probably lends to the 25 max theory..I have seen two carp ghost past me in the margins only twice that I can remember, I've seen them bosh out , surface with their fins out etc..
It's almost a perfect circle with no climbable trees. So there are no definite Vantage points to spot fish...I call it the "dark pit" for that reason.... It's not dark bul it is in the margins... You see carp cruising in pods of maybe 3 at a time which probably lends to the 25 max theory..I have seen two carp ghost past me in the margins only twice that I can remember, I've seen them bosh out , surface with their fins out etc..
In reply to Post #12
You definitely won't know for certain unless you drain the lake dry.
When I bought my place I was told by people who had fished it that there were around 35 carp. There were in fact around 60.
Eight years on and there are still uncaught fish, seen, but never put on the bank. There are quite a few fish that haven't been out for between four and seven years as well. And that's in just two acres.
You definitely won't know for certain unless you drain the lake dry.
When I bought my place I was told by people who had fished it that there were around 35 carp. There were in fact around 60.
Eight years on and there are still uncaught fish, seen, but never put on the bank. There are quite a few fish that haven't been out for between four and seven years as well. And that's in just two acres.
In reply to Post #17
It's amazing that fish don't ever get caught or go uncaught for few years
It's amazing that fish don't ever get caught or go uncaught for few years
In reply to Post #6
So with a stock of 150, 50 never get caught? I think I read that as well years back, possibly TP, dismissed it then, and happy to again now.
So with a stock of 150, 50 never get caught? I think I read that as well years back, possibly TP, dismissed it then, and happy to again now.
In reply to Post #17
I fish a one acre lake where quite detailed records are kept regarding fish capture. We know of 30 fish in particular where 10 were caught between 2019 and 2021 but not since.
We regularly get fish out that haven't been seen for two years and we also catch fish we don't know about as they grow on from breeding in the lake.
That's in an acre!
I fish a one acre lake where quite detailed records are kept regarding fish capture. We know of 30 fish in particular where 10 were caught between 2019 and 2021 but not since.
We regularly get fish out that haven't been seen for two years and we also catch fish we don't know about as they grow on from breeding in the lake.
That's in an acre!
Interesting thoughts. Wondering now if I will ever know. Probably not. Still best guess 20 ,to 40
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